Here in Bathurst there is a lot of NBN trenching and cabling going on along with brochures in letterboxes promising the wonderful world of NBN.
Its only going to be fibre to the node ? and the rest using the old copper network.

When I still had a landline phone a Telstra tech came out to fix my noisy line and took a long time jabbing away trying to find a good pair.

He told me that the copper lines were aged and basically shot so this is what the wonderful NBN is going to be shoved down.

Even the pair he put me on started to crackle after a few weeks so in the end had the phone disconnected. Use a mobile phone.

Glad I have a 3/4G wireless modem which connects to computer etc by WiFi. Very useful setup as can take the modem where ever I go so don't have the slightest interest in a plug in the wall NBN.

As well there are many stories on ham radio forums and here of interference from NBN modems.

Wish NBN joy of their network, my computer usage just don't need the higher data speeds.

The good news is that a decent 4G signal is faster than ADSL2+. I know one thing is for sure - I am also not a big downloader so if it wasn't for the need to host this and a couple of other websites, I would not have a landline or ADSL - tethering to the mobile phone would be ample.

He told me that the copper lines were aged and basically shot

In many areas they are in terrible condition, due mainly to an own goal Telstra management scored with its notorious "Seal the CAN (customer access network)" project that used an apparently untested gel sealant product on cable joints which eventually ate away the insulation and corroded the copper causing a tremendous number of line faults, the effects of which are still being felt decades later.

See here: http://www.abc.net.au/technology/articles/2013/09/18/3851118.htm

So, if that gel is still anywhere in the so-called "last mile" from node to end user, then you can expect ongoing problems.

A few years ago Telstra pulled new cable in my street because gel-associated problems had their techs dealing with them almost every day -- no exaggeration. Until the new cable was pulled, the techs had "ring barked" the affected multi-pair cables to get back to good copper to make repairs. The resulting joints were a rat's nest covered with black plastic garbage bags.

It is easy to let records go to rack and ruin and in the case of the linked article it is likely that the cause is due to the fact that Telstra's own staff are not the only people that have access to pits, pillars and even exchanges.

At work, one of my jobs is looking after the PABX and the 2,000 pair MDF that is adjacent to it. The state of the records for the MDF isn't too bad but it is incomplete. I am in the throes of setting up an Excel spreadsheet with just about every possible piece of information relating to every extension. The extension number, the circuit number (output from the PABX), where the jumpers connect to, the location of the extension as it is currently patched from the racks on each floor and who uses the extension and what sort of line it is, whether it is a digital, analogue or portable DECT phone or even a DECT base station.

There are other things that need to be logged too, such as the incoming pairs from the RIM located a level down, incoming backup PSTN lines, tie lines to an adjacent building, etc.

Once all this is done, and tested to confirm accuracy, I will then throw the current log sheets in the shredder and start again and will then have a 100% accurate record of what goes where.

Bear in mind that this is a big job and I am doing it in bibs and bobs. To correct records for a national network, well, it may never happen and would take replacement with FTTH (whenever that may happen) to see accurate records once again be a feature.

Hi All, very informative stuff and far more information than trying to ring a gov department!
The NBN site has lots of info about what should happen, good luck there.

Re the Telstra cabling, yes it is shot, the latest classic moves by the 457 guys in the white vans in my street was for my line pair to be stolen to fix up a neighbours connection. My modem screamed "no line" and dropped out as I was uploading stuff on the ADSL link. (BTW I have 5MBps down load and 0.8 MBps upload as typical) I shot outside and sure enough 457 was just getting into his van outside my neighbours.

When challenged he said tough luck put in a fault report and drove off. I put in a line fault ( what a performance that is now talking to Mary in Malaysia or Peter in the Philipines since that the local exchange is no more) and a guy I know turned up a, real tech, and he sorted out a good pair at my place. We checked the pit at the top of the street where the branch line comes off the main lead covered trunk because most of the 30 pairs for my street were now dead and some brain dead turkey had used the lead trucking as a step to stand on to get down into the pit. It had a huge dip in it and guess how many pairs broken. The dip now has bypasses like my heart!

In 1000 years when I get NBN I want FTTH!
My son by the way got FTTH , AND a back up battery AND a modem as part of the original deal from NBN and Julia Gillard (remember her?) and that is what every body SHOULD be getting as a matter of course. Both Governments should have got the experts to just go and do it and not worry about costs. Its too late now. If we had worried about costs the Snowy mountain, the Harbour bridge, the Warragamba dam just in NSW alone would NEVER have gone ahead. As a society we are now paralysed by Dunning Kruger thinking (google it). Remember the 2000 Olympics and the blue arsed speckled bull frog? Nearly stopped the whole thing from going ahead by the green flat earth and foil hat brigades.

Next time the copper dies I'll just disconnect and use the phone and laptop and punt the copper for good.
Cheers, Fred.

I can vouch for the problems with connectors on copper wire. When I built the new house I made a point of having all of the connections above ground. There have been six failures since 2013 and the finally relented & took out the bad section that resulted from 3 lots of their cabling & joined that above ground. The under ground connections fail about every 5 years. Solder & shrink tube with glue in it may solve that.

They putdown two cables independently, in the full knowledge that the local line was stuffed & had been for years. so it ended up on fences until they yet again came back & ran in new cable. In Tungamah (rural) the land line is non existent and its now dodgy wireless NBN (this claim made to the Senate inquiry) with no redundancy. Great if there is a fire & no power.

As I have said before with personal UPS / No break. It is "Folly" in rural areas. As I wrote: I can keep my system powered so long as I have petrol. But it is a waste of time, if my equipment has nothing to talk to.

Marc

Rare frogs and bean counters who encourage government departments to even get a whiff of a cost benefit analysis are the chief reasons why the planet is about to come to a standstill. The other goodie is Aboriginal artefacts - namely spear tips and rock paintings, which in my view has about as much historical value as graffiti on the side of a train. All of the above guaranteed to put a spanner in the works somewhere or another and as a society we are all paying for the way these obstructions, and horrendous levels of government debt and waste contribute to things not getting done.

I think a mix of fibre and mobile would be the most acceptable way to roll out future communications. With fibre one has the benefit of a connection that remains alive if there is a permanent power source at either end of the line and no cabinets in the street for cars and trucks to run into or be vandalised. With mobile one has a proven technology that runs at 54MBit for a 4G connection which is ample for everything that a mobile phone. tablet or small laptop can do. When I go camping at Hill End, NSW I use a prepaid Optus card there because Telstra is almost non-existent and they obviously have no plans on improving the situation. I can do everything from watching the football on the NRL Digital Pass to receiving and sending e-mail. Mobile phone towers do have UPS backup but I am not sure how long they stand up for in a blackout. I guess we'll come to find out in a year or so as governments continue with another new age habit - closing down power stations.

Originally, our complex was shown on the NBN website as slated for FTTP. However, that later changed to FTTN (surprise, surprise) and numerous node boxes -- for want of the correct term -- have been installed in the streets in recent weeks.

I note with some fascination that NBN is also installing new pillars in the streets. They are positioning the pillars hard up against building alignment, rather than close to the road. I guess that's a nod to their being targets for wayward vehicles.

Although it's a pity not to get the FTTP as originally slated, all of these new pillars would appear to mean that the node-to-premises copper runs will be comparatively short, so there's some hope for reasonable performance.

I live in hope.

A bit more info re NBN Wireless services.

They use the same spectrum as 4G does & in fact are a slightly modified 4G base station except that they ONLY allow the fixed customers to access it.
The number of customers on each service is limited so cannot get over crowded thus speeds are quite good.

Have had reports of download speeds of 25Mbps and up to 50Mbps IF you opt for the "Double your Speed" option which costs a wee bit more but if you need that sort of speed is well worth it.
Upload speeds are often 10Mbps & 20Mbps respectively.

The bearers SLOW predictably with high occupancy rates in peak times & according to my son the reliability is way better than ADSL II which he had originally prior to switching over. He had a hell of a time with crappy cable to his premises with pairs going High R frequently.

Is a great pity that Malcolm T managed to change the NBN plan from FTTP to FTTN when he got into power as by going ALL Glass from day one is way better than a hybrid system as the amount of capacity that optic fibre can handle is WAY above that of copper cable. There is NO need for the little green boxes on street corners as the optic paths are split to accommodate everyone in sealed joints in the pits underground.
Might have cost a bit more today but is going to be way cheaper to have done it NOW than trying to retrofit the system in later years as demand for higher speeds & throughput increase in time.
A VERY short sighted decision.

"Is a great pity that Malcolm T managed to change the NBN plan from FTTP to FTTN......."

Wonder if he was aware of the damage to the copper lines as a result of the customer access network project explained above.

Wonder if he was aware of the damage to the copper lines

He would have waved that off as a 'technical issue'.

An article in today's New York Times

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/11/world/australia/australia-slow-internet-broadband.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Faustralia&_r=0

"How Australia Bungled Its $36 Billion High-Speed Internet Rollout"

Mentioned is that they are using existing voice grade copper for the "last mile". That would suggest the fastest service would be DSL speeds

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_subscriber_line

This assumes good quality copper... Which may be hard to come by, if links in above posts are typical.

The biggest problem is that politics is involved.

Back in the mid 1990s when Telstra and Optus rolled out their cable networks in the state capitals and smaller players like Neighbourhood Cable and TransACT rolled out similar networks in Bendigo, VIC and Canberra respectively; government didn't get involved. They just said, you guys have the cash, you know how to build networks, go for it.

Of course there were issues along the way, like running into asbestos deposits and the like but by and large the networks just got built. The only real stumbling block was that the ISPs eventually ran out of money and their network footprints were not as big as they originally wanted. But with the tempters of faster internet and subscription television up for grabs these networks did make money from the start.

Later, around the time of the Sydney Olympics, Telstra started ADSL trials and my exchange was one of the first in the country to be fitted with the permanent roll out and I ended up being the second ADSL subscriber on the Ryde exchange. Again, the rollout of ADSL to its current footprint went fairly well, to those who were living within its footprint because government didn't get involved.

In a technical sense, a cable network is a FTTN network. Fibre is shared until it reaches a roadside cabinet and then coax cable takes over. ADSL has the benefit of each subscriber having their own physical connection back to the telephone exchange so any heavy downloaders in the immediate area won't have an impact on other customers.

Fast forward about six years to 2007 and the socialist Opposition at the time threw out the MOAEB, the Mother Of All Election Bribes, to wire up almost everyone across the nation with fibre with those in remote areas receiving a satellite connection. Shortly after the election, as the costs were being further worked on, the fibre footprint was cut from something like 98% of subscribers to 93% with fixed wireless being thrown into the mix. But even before the election the nation's population split into two camps, one advocating the government-sponsored cash splash on a network that was never going to be designed correctly from the outset. The other one, becoming discontent with why a government needs to get involved in such a project when in the past the private sector has taken the risks and been successful.

The NBN would later be plagued by striking workers, asbestos issues, cases of too many people doing too little work, government money being wasted hand over fist, shoddy workmanship at subscribers' homes and a government specialty - a lack of communication. Six years later a conservative government would be re-elected with the incoming Minister for Communications being reportedly ordered to "destroy the NBN". The problem there was that there was nothing to destroy. You can't destroy something that is already stuffed. But again, government interference still plagues the project. The current government brought in further technology mixes, making the process of giving more people a faster internet connection more quickly possible but at the same time removing the possibility of all hardwired connections being fibre from the exchange to the property.

The first politician who promises to privatise NBNCo and leave building telecommunications networks to the experts, regardless of whether they are in Team Blue or Team Red, will probably get my vote. The first true telecommunications infrastructure in Australia was the Overland Telegraph, completed in 1872 and whilst funded by money from London banks it was built by a private consortium of pioneers, explorers, tradesmen and even a few natives working as labourers. The South Australian Government supervised the work but left the nitty gritty to the workers, which included stopping other natives from chopping down the poles and wires!

It is ironic that the current Prime Minster founded one of Australia's first national dialup ISPs back in the early 1990s (OzEmail, now owned by TPG) and he isn't passing on the experience of achieving that to the construction of the NBN. Then again, Mr Turnbull isn't a businessman anymore, he's a politician.

The Commonwealth Government made a pills of the NBN from the word go and it's time for them to offload it.

The first politician who promises to privatise NBNCo

That will happen, and it will be a repeat of Telstra: where the public gets to buy back what it has already paid for.


It is ironic that the current Prime Minster founded one of Australia's first national dialup ISPs

Make that 'funded' an ISP. He wouldn't know one end of a screwdriver from the other, but he does have millions to put into ventures that his mates point him towards.

I am not sure NBNCo will be floated, though who apart from Telstra, TPG, Optus or a venture capitalist would have the money to pay for it? Perhaps the Big Three would be allowed to go thirds in it and later fight over who'd buy out who later on.