Hi all

I have one of these that I am trying to at the lest get going

it did work but I know it would be in bad need of an over haul by now

Seems from post around here I find there are 39 Variations on the infamous Beehive
(not sure were the model info would have been
but cant see any on the case)

This particular model version does from memory use a 5Y3 Rectifier tube (opened it years ago to find out the valve line up but long forgotten now really what it was)

Actually side question
does anyone know source of NOS stock in OZ of 5Y3 Rec tubes or am I stuck searching the world USA,UK & Ebay for them
(this is really for another amp project)

I have the PDF thats floating around but the schematic
is sadly not really readable
(probably enough for those well clued up on Radio circuits with valves but sadly I am not one of them)

So I really need a "legible Schematic" that I can read
and a parts list would be nice to at lest help ID some of the components I am sure will be hard to work out what they might be after so many years

I know there are a few Valve line up variations too

this is a starting point I guess

Oh & just on powering this thing up, its been sitting for years
is using a lamp in the "active" line (series) a safe way to go?
(yes the old TV tech lamp inline trick)

or is it still possible to kill something
(biggest fear, killing something you cant replace)

Once I open the beehive up
i'll load some photos somewhere and link them
(I cant find any on the net ..so far anyway)

The case, thought good (apart from its badge logo)
dont shine no more but thats another issue for later

Thank you so much for any input you may have people
Cheers

The schematic and copious notes regarding model revisions for the 11-4 can be found here:

http://www.kevinchant.com/11--series.html.

... however, the scan of the schematic is quite poor quality.

I have a better scan of one of the versions, that happens to use 5Y3 but you'd need to check it against the actual chassis that you have. If you unhide your email address (via Control Panel) I can send that to you.

As you probably know, the dim bulb tester will detect a short circuit, but you need to be quick on the switch if the bulb glows brightly. The safer way is to bring up the voltage slowly using a Variac while applying all of the human senses to detect bad things happening.

However, with anything this old that hasn't been used for a long time, it's a given that the electrolytics will be suspect so it's better to replace all of those right off the bat prior to applying any power at all.

Ditto wax/paper capacitors.

There's also a good chance that you may have resistors that have drifted way off value.

I don't know if beehives used rubber covered hookup wire, but if so then that's probably perished and dangerous.

Be very careful with the louvres. There are lots of beehives around with cracked ones because people have either lost the separators and/or overtightened the threaded rods.

I don't know of any local supply of NOS 5Y3 valves.

Gee that was quick
sorry off reading other posts

Unhide

Thanks GTC

Edited for comment bit later

yeah Why I was hanging off powering it up

Electro Caps and wiring
I need to eye ball it first

sadly one thing I dont have is a Variac
but sooner I guess rather then later I need to get one


yeah nice and bright you got a short..

question was a bit off the cuff actually

but upon further thinking
its possible, as if the power side is ok damage could happen if something does go short a bit later and further on in the circuit

thought ideally everything should have fuse I know theres fair chance there might not be one
(or worse replace with the 1K Amp bolt by a nut)

Resistors
yes that was my thoughts that some probably have drifted

yes the louvres are a fragile item and of concern to me
so I'll be as careful as I can
(my biggest worry is cleaning & trying to restore them)

there is some beehive posts I glanced through but need to read them more fully


on the 5Y3
theres been a few come up on Ebay but well
its a risk

there are some of the JAN W versions from the UK at the moment

which I believe are indirectly heated version of the 5Y3

So the sag is not as great as the actual 5Y3 heater/cathode arrangement

W version 25V from specs I think
and the 5Y3 60V

Thought really how much that factors in
I have no Idea with radio's

if I understand the idea of the" voltage sag" properly,
it being a by product of the current demand & resistance of the Valve

I can assume the 6V6 GT being only one tube is running as class A Audio amp so then it has a fairly constant current demand on the supply
setting B+ at one point were as with the "W" version it maybe higher..

still I think the current demand from one 6V6 wouldn't be that great to load the rectifier valve down, anyway but I suppose it depends on the total current being drawn from all circuits that decides that really

So I guess either version would work
for the beehive if I have to use one

Thats if I got the theory Right...

anyway

just thinking out a loud..and yeah in regard to push pull guitar amps

So many things I have to learn with valve tech...humm


Again Many Thanks GTC

TV Collector some time ago sent here a 14 page PDF with the Kriesler 11-4 in all its variants.

http://vintage-radio.com.au/default.asp?f=2&th=228.

If you want to pay a lot of money for a 5Y3, then you can get a new (not NOS) Sovtek or JJ one from Evatco in QLD:

http://evatco.com.au/product-list/audio-tubes/5y3gts/.

http://evatco.com.au/product-list/audio-tubes/5y3sjj/.

Personally, I'd seek a good used one (or two) from another collector.

Evatco in Queensland have supplies of 5Y3's either new or NOS, worth giving them a ring and see what they can offer.

Mal and Rose are very helpful people.

Link: http://evatco.com.au/product-list/audio-tubes/5y3gts/.

Edit: GTC beat me by 2 mins with the same info.

Quite a number of restorers/collectors deal with Evatco.

Comment: It is best to stick with the correct lineup as was originally used in the set unless you really know what your doing.

Evatco in Queensland have supplies of 5Y3's either new or NOS

I only see what I consider to be new prices on their site. Do they have an "off list" supply of NOS?

Since the advent of their new website information on their stocks of radio type valves has disappeared.

Originally Evatco had long lists of all sorts of radio valves.

Don't know what is going on.

Evatco used to have a comprehensive list of valves, including radio, TV & industrial types. Recently I wanted to buy some TV valves but I too found the Evatco site no longer shows a list. Perhaps availability is now on request.

I have no trouble buying valves elsewhere, but I prefer to try locally first.

I must of been still half asleep when I wrote my previous post as I see Dj Oz has already seen TV Collectors PDF.

Thank a lot
Monochrome625, Simplex GTC

Monochrome625, No worries and yeah I think thats the one got

Trouble is it like trying to decipher Dr's scrawl for component ID
thought, I think a nutted out a few...very few

probably get more idea once I open it up

Quote
"correct lineup as was originally used"

yes my thoughts
I am not versed enough on what to tweak for what tube

So the Game plan is to replace with whats needed
in spec as per original build...

I am guessing most of those changes were to support what they could get their hands on for the builds

war time would have put a lot of stress on what you could get your hands on so (before during and after...and of course price is always what you looking to minimise)

I am aware of Evatco and was considering the JJ 5Y3

I didnt know they carried NOS thought, and there site
seems a bit lacking, as looking for fender trannies I found my self doing a lot of cross checking on Specs
(its gotten a little better so maybe the site being worked on slowly)

The other project is a guitar Amp using 6V6's in a self split
see Uncle Dougs video if you want to know more

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA7q0FWY4Q0.
(about 4~5 min is the interesting parts)

it looked interesting any how... to play with and can be rebuilt as a classic fender clone later I suppose

Anyway
I have heard wafflings of not so good things with newly manufacture Rectifier tubes

still trying to find some info on how well the 5Y3 JJ's stack up

As it seems Ebay is not cheap for tubes and most are not new...(not to mention postage especially from the usa can be a killer)

So if I have to go new
it seems like the JJ 5Y3 will be the go...thus Far anyway
(thought I have to check the specs I suppose)

again thank you all, for all the Help
Cheers

I've emailed you an alternative schematic that may be easier to read but, as I cautioned, it may not be an exact fit for your particular chassis.

PS: Why are you typing with short lines? It's easier for me to read if you let the forum software manage the line wrapping automatically; that is, only use the enter key when you want to create a blank line.

Thanks GTC

I am sure it probably will be somewhat different, no idea which model version I have just vaguely remembered I think it use a 5Y3
(thought I am now wondering why I bought a 6X5G/GT I think it is, I've heard not great things about this rec tube and it was cheap so probably dont work)

on formatting
Just me, usually fixing typos and trying to separate points for... well I hope more clarity

Thanks again much appreciated
I'll check if it arrived...virus scanners on servers take time I've found

Humm may have to check my email here?

Edit update

OK email works from here if you click on it, but yours as yet hasn't arrived ..it wouldn't be the first that showed up late thought...

PS if you hand entered it make sure you put the " _ " underscore thingie "shift minus" between words

Thanks

The 6X5 has a reputation for internal shorting heater to cathode (and taking out the transformer secondary in the process), which I have always found strange given that the 6X5 was developed for car radios.

That said, I have not yet experienced the problem myself ... touch wood!

I hope you never do GTC...

Humm killing transformers is never a good thing, so no wonder people have developed a big dislike of them...not a cheap fix

yes funny thinking that a car would possibly be the worse environment you'd want a physical failure like that happening
(assuming I got that correct it is a physical failure)

Thought I did read that its never really a good idea with rectifier tubes to leave them for long periods at odd angles and even horizontal mounting (to spec) posses a possible risk

might partly explain new tube failures...but I dont know, I have no info on what actually causes their failure..only comments from those that are well versed in valves about not being impressed with new ones cause of failures...anyway

noob here with Valves and their peculiarities
so all speculation on my part

I have used the Russian 5Y3. Do be aware they have been built different. Theirs is a slow warm up tube suggesting it has a cathode sleeve and is built more rugged, having internals mechanically more like a 6X4 & similar. Rather that a hot wire in an air-conditioner duct.

That design almost eliminates the power surge and it likely wont self destruct like a 5Y3 when turned sideways.

There were a couple of designs of 6X5, & the over & under one was one that was apt to self destruct. Why are we bothering with old valves? 5Y3 is still made as is 6V6.

I have serviced at least two, or so Beehives and can vaguely remember rubber wire. Kriesler's love wiping out speaker transformers.Crack a 9V battery across the primary to see if it works.

I have seen these blow Mica caps on the det audio. Several resistors will need to go (The grid resistors on 6V6 have an attrition rate, rather than a fail rate) as well as every Wax Paper cap and Electrolytic. I think some of those had double ones?

The louvers suffer from dodgy dampers. The bolts were I think 3/16" and the louver holes 1/4". The dampers were blotting paper with a 1/4" hole. That ensured (without glue) that when the bolt went slack, they invariably disappeared down the hole. The hole was probably big to stop rattle. I ended up using 3/16" fibre washers & that did not rattle & they could not fall out.

Use 500V Filter caps on B+ with a 5Y3.