Have used some Sovtek and JJ amplifier valves in audio gear over the years and at least the ones I bought were quite ok and reliable.

No experience with their rectifier valves so afraid I can't offer any comments.

Perhaps give Evatco a ring and see what they say may be the best thing.

Thanks Marcc & Simplx

Marcc yeah I remembered vaguely now it was mentioned more so one type was probably the one that give the 6X5 a bad reputation

but thank you for the explanation and information

now if I got the info right and I am open to correction on all of it on the 5Y3

from what I gather, there is an indirectly heated type and directly heated type
The indirectly heated has a slow warm up but results in a higher B+ then the directly heated type?
directly heated type (combined cathode heater, filament)
has a lower B+

partly the reason, if the tube was shot for the bee.. id like to keep it a little authentic to period

the other... I've heard is that old stock longevity is far better then todays new made jobbies and yes I guess thats a bit controversial... so I'll leave that as is and let the comment be...everyone has there own opinions on that

I am not opposed to new ones and sure I'll use a JJ or Sovetek if need be, in both projects

on the 6V6's I've been reading good things on the Tung Sol
so I am intending to get some of them at some point
they are not so expensive & seem to be fairly reliable

For a few reasons more so for guitar use
still a bee probably wont complain..again if need be

yeah Marcc I was looking for your post again on the louvers and the use of fibre washers so that will be the go I think

500v Electro done I will defiantly get some once I get the value...thought from what I understand is you need to not push up that capacitance value with rectifier Valves

yes the speaker I remembered you mention that in another thread and that is of concern possibly stuffed output tranny is not so cheap... lest wise here

The wiring if rubber..yes it will go for sure...in keeping with period hows the cloth covered stuff from Evatco ?
http://evatco.com.au/product-list/wire/wire-cloth-covered-single-core/

----- Safety point -----

BTW "Earthing the Chassis" I'd suppose its probably a requirement these days but in the bad old days its was just floating
So are there anything cotcha's anything to watch out for with that?... if I do or probably need to do????

Hadn't thought about this till now
------------------------

again thanks for the information, sorry you had to retype it again

Simplex thanks
I intend to order from them at some point but a call sounds like a good idea ...maybe an email

Just on the new production Valves seems only made in like china or the old soviet union countries and I think they have been hit and miss over the years from what I read So you'll find bad reports on some...the current batches no idea but well it only takes few bad apples to give a brand a bad name

The thing is the brand name tube is probably the same as other "Golden Age" brand name tube you get these days..

The reality is there's probably only 4 places all of them are made type thing...what might make the difference is when they were produced

anyway thats my understanding of the situation these days with new made valves

The QC in the only days was much higher cause you had many many places producing them (competitions a good thing well it was in the old days... these days its a race to see who can make the best crapola lol...yes a joke)

there a video on the Blackburn plant on YT ...made in the 60's...it amazing to watch how they were made

Anyway i'll post of some photos of the inners when I do get time to pull it down and survey the lay of the land

Hope you all are having a great holiday weekend

Cheers

The Sovtek whilst being one with a Cathode sleeve is still a filament tube as like 5V4 and others the cathode is tied to the filament on one pin. That is the pin that B+ should be taken from.

Sovtek has a massive tube filament, but is still a GT and wont be seen with the cabinet on anyway.

One tends, if not going retro cloth covered mains wire, to Buy a 3 plug & cable (suicide cable) prefabricated from someone like Middy's. Some buy cheap cables & cut the end off. I have had a go at a couple of these suppliers for getting the stuff made on the cheap, resulting in almost rigid flexible cable. Cheap is achieved by leaving out plasticiser. So "caveat emptor" applies.

There are ways of dealing with the cloth mains wire.

I use EVATCO wire, make sure you get stranded & a few different colours. Saves making life a misery as you can use say red for the main B+ blue for screens. The heaters, EVATCO do have solid heater wire. Electric motor wire sleeving on solid transformer copper if it's damaged.

I use a gland for anchoring the mains cable to chassis, If you can get the right position, you can put the pointy end (backwards) into the pan. That chassis can be earthed.

Do leave the earth the longest, so that in the (unlikely with gland) event that a mains wire gets torn off, it will be last & likely help take out the mains CB, or fuse.

Think before you order. EVATCO has high watt 2&3's resistors that are not easy to get elsewhere. and they have the axial 630V ones you need.

Seems pin 8 is usually the B+ but I'll check the pdf and were its hooked up to anyway out of curiosity

Hum on the mains 3 core yes I suppose retro cloth would be a nice idea I'll see what Evatco has
(Edit seems they dont have but not to worry a normal one from a proper place of supply will be the go if need be)

Yeah sadly thats seem the thing these days so much that wouldn't have gotten through the door years ago is prolific these days

definitely get the wire from them... stranded rated 600V as above..in a few colours

the heater wire is this? I take it you were talking about
http://evatco.com.au/product-list/wire/wire-heater/.

if you dont mind Marcc I'll post before ordering, the selection of replacement parts just to be sure... I am cautious when it comes to things like this so I'll query if I am unsure of anything or have doubts

Glands are good.. so I take you mean backwards so the the nut and thread are minimal for the case..(like lets not modifiy the case..*faints* yep agree)

Yep well aware of the idea of "earthing"..just taken the usa a few decades to catch up on that one...just these things never were so thought Id better ask to be sure...
(they pretty much dont have any exposed metal..except the antenna maybe)

Well dont know what happen to GTC's email but anyway
When I pull it down I'll see how I go, I am fairly good at tracing out circuits

Again many Thanks

dont know what happen to GTC's email

I sent it to the red_dwarf email address that you had in your profile and it hasn't bounced back to me. Check your email account's spam folder in case it's decided that a message with a PDF attached is spam.

almost rigid flexible cable

One of my pet hates!

The HRSA keeps an extensive stock of good used and NOS valves available to members. There's also a number of other members that supply valves and advertise in their magazine. I buy most of mine from Joe Oost who's prices are very reasonable. At HRSA meetings he sells good 6V6's at 3 for $10. He does mail order and only charges the actual cost of the postage. I won't put his email address here but if anyone wants it I can send it to you.

Warren

Thanks GTC I do appreciate your kindness, yeah actually that wouldn't surprise me

EDIT
Your on the money GTC thanks so much sorry for the inconvenience

I must have missed a notification with TB its there...curses viri for making our life a misery...

Scraps thanks too for the info, I'll get back to you on that

I contacted Evatco,seems if you after nos contact them

Anyway off to do some looking

That is the heater wire. What seems to be forgotten is the wire current in a parallel circuit by the time it gets to the transformer.

My reason for suggesting it was a recent incident where Messrs Smith & Thom must have had some time off. What I noted was that the rubber coated wire in the heater & filament rails was showing signs of heat damage, at the transformer end, above its normal deterioration.

It was in my opinion due to trying to use the same gauge wire through out. Albeit I was far from wrapped in its wiring layout anyway. I ended up splitting off the OP valve heater wire and running the rest on another rail (Wire had to be replaced anyway).

This was a set I never bothered powering until I sorted it out. There are observations & tests you can do without powering and this one was only going to smoke: So nothing to achieve but damage

Thanks Marcc

seems if you do it right, the heater wire should be of a heavier gauge with Valves period

I can from a manufacturing point of view see why they possibly didn't do it as they should have (probably costs or availability)...still thats not really an excuse for not doing the job right...sound like there was no real QC in the manufacturer just so long as it worked at the end of the line

yes the sum of the total branch currents (heaters) goes through that wire from the transformer so it should be rated to handle that Total Current drawn by all heaters/ filaments

So you run a separate heater line to the output 6V6 and feed the others from a separate (paralleling) line from the 6V3 winding .....sounds like a plan

really now I need to get this open and start getting a parts list together..just want to first get a plastic box or two to store the Case in..then some photos

Thanks for again the tips

The idea is to know the current carrying capacity of the wire you are going to use vs that which is being drawn. Eg a 6V6 heater 450mA vs the filament of 5Y3 at 2A

There were two reasons why I modified that radio mentioned. One: I considered it the wrong wire for the job: Based on damage. 2nd. The crazy way they wired the OP tube heater. Tasma tended to use Philips valves. Clever in one way, as these did not require separate RF shields.

Unless you know better from experience, replace the wire aping the existing pattern. Do make sure that you do as they have done & keep it close to the chassis. Running wire high, especially in the RF section, makes it susceptible to induction and that can cause drama that you do not want to know about.

Hi Marcc

my 1st statement was in regard to heater chewing juice but yes I know exactly what you meant

Now excused me while I go bang my head on a wall

for what ever reason I was so sure this had a 5Y3 rectifier...

Well it Aint! it is a 6X5 GT Rectifier Brimar

So I guess I'll have to rethink the power supply arrangement (just when you get use to how a 5Y3 is wired lol)

maybe years I did a search on the net and thats what I found (probably wasn't as much info around then)
but Iam sure at one point I did have a looked at it and maybe thats why I shelfed it

Seems its not in a good state

I got some photos but well I'll try to get a few better ones in better light tomorrow

I think I'll send them to Brad as Id rather they be in the thread then posted else where...dont you just hate it when images disappear when reading threads..

looking at it I think I bit off more then I can chew here, the IF can (I Think it is) is cracked on top...so humm

Most capacitors look original and defiantly all must go ...might be one later modded mustard I think they were called on the 6V6G which is of the ST (coke bottle? ) Style
(.047μF I think)

I dont want to touch the RF IF Valves (I am sure i'd probably break the caps) but I did gently roll out the rectifier and output..(by the base not the bottle) to get some shots of the speaker while at it I gave then a light clean (to have better sticky beak inside)

Anyway it looks like this one has the ECH35 6G8G 6V6GT 6X5GT Line up
ECH35 it seems was Phillips and red coated.... this looked the same and was marked Phillips on the base thought all gone now the red colour ..just some at the bottom

the other is canned so no idea

Anyway So I guess I'll have lot more questions which I wast hoping not to haunt you guys with ..like IF can repair and how best to clean off a mains transformer
dial cord (dreads thought but I think it needs at minimal some sort cleaning and at worse a redoing)

I do appreciate you help thought and you have all been very helpful

so guess this will be an overtime project and not just a recap and cleanup thing..

EDIT SCRATCH Below it Across Primary
I just reread marc comment

Oh and Marcc that 9 volt speaker test... that is across the secondary at the speaker?...scratchie type test to see if cone moves
just want to be sure, haven't check a valve speaker setup before.. Thanks again

Anyway cheers people

We've now narrowed your 11-4 down to one of these models:- 11-4EZ, 11-4FZ, 11-4LZ. 11-4MZ or 11-4PZ.
11-4FZ & 11-4MZ both have Permag Speakers. The other 3 have Electro Dynamic Speakers (Field Coil Types).
To narrow your version down even further we have to now determine the type of speaker used. Marcc's 9V battery speaker click test is done across the primary of the speaker transformer. This test determines the condition of the speaker transformer. This test will only work with a permag speaker.

Some of the these Kriesler circuits, including the 11-4, are hard to read, even from the original manufacturers data sheets. I spent a couple of hours last night over a few beers and a bit of Photoshop magic re-doing the 11-4 schematic.

Click on circuit diagram for larger resolution

Thanks Monochrome
Yeah I just reread Marcc post "Primary"
(thin Red Blue going to underside)

Actually was just going to get rid of that dumb question it was late at night but since you replied I'll just edit it

The Speaker is a bit weird having an oblong box magnet I suppose

Oh Thank ... yeah that was what I was going to attempt to try and create a better one

its abit of a hodge podge in there wow...

Thanks again

I disagree on the permag speaker, often there is enough residual magnetism in the bobbin core of the electrodynamic to get a click if its good. If you get no click then you go for the ohmmeter, then the stress.

11-4 has four valves and is reflexed. They did use 6J8 instead of ECH35. The red metalisation is its shielding but the valve may not be dead. There is a band of copper wire at the top of the base on those that is easily broken should the valve be pulled out by the glass.

I have tacked a spiral of silver wire around one of those & re-coated it with conductive glue. If it is the correct valve, pin one will be grounded. I think it otherwise has the same pinout as 6J8. I have that one drawn out on AutoCad (electrodynamic speaker).

The one I had (ser014605) has only the 6J8 different. You may be looking at a wet cap or IF not a valve cover.

We had three turn up at a fix it day at the radio club and none were the same (case was).

Transformer is shown as shielded, so ground the chassis.