Well what can I say! All together powered it up first with the dim bulb tester, no expensive brown smells removed dim bulb and away it went all all singing and dancing. ( Hang on that was me ! ) One thing unusual when it is warming up it goes into a high pitched squeal after that initial squeal it is very stable and nothing unusual throughout it's tuning range .Any ideas ?
I guess I should try and do an alignment. Shouldn't I Marc ? Not sure I am brave enough , just so relieved it actually works . It is a great relief .Still have the dial lamp wiring to replace and a new globe when they arrive, case to be cleaned up and speaker cloth to replace.
I fell I just want to tiptoe around it and get it back to Tony H. ASAP.
I am not sure if I have enjoyed this journey, the big stumbling block is my health. I keep saying I can't do this anymore and should hang up the soldering iron. I have been trying a certain oil from several differnt sources now . Basically I am shaking more now and enjoying it less ( a quote from an old cigarette commercial) The point is I have no interest in sport , not a reader. I still do one morning a week for charity. I used to do 3 however I am basically still banned from the other I used to do another two days for because of this Corona virus.and me being over 70.
Kind regards Jim.

Ok any suggestions on the case. I need to make up one new foot. The case is generally good should I give it a polish with extra cut car polish, or leave it alone, less chance of breaking it.
Regards Jim

My hands have always been a bit shaky, but one caries on, despite them seemingly getting worse. The big issue is welding albeit in the past week or so I did, for the first time in decades use Oxy fusion welding on the Lawn Tractor deck (may have been mentioned) 1.5mm #22 Gauge, successfully; Arc weld a bit of 3mm pipe to a plate & lob a bullet in a cows head, precisely where it was supposed to go.

IF is low 175kHz but should be little different in procedure, but remember it has AGC therefore too strong of a signal will cause it to activate & cause issues. Series cap generator to TC of 6A7 around 200pF. I have the factory alignment data for 31 & 32 which have the same circuit.

Apparently the IF trimmers are on LH top spkr facing you nr 1 at the front. 3, 4 & 5 on the gang 5 is the front one (dial end) Padder is fixed so no adjustment. #80 is a 5Y3 mechanically, so turning it sideways is a no no.

Foot from what I see is an ordinary rubber furniture one, which you should be able to buy off the shelf.

I use an oscilloscope as the meter for alignment: The old way is a meter on AC with a series cap of 0.1mfd. Peak 200H has this built in and that cap will be cactus. There is one here. I took one look at its internal cap tested it, after which it ended up in the bin.

Car polish can be deadly: On weathered brown Bakelite the Bicarb in it can get in the pores and because the polish is likely Silicone based it will be hell on earth to retrieve the situation. If its not too bad I just use linseed oil, but that can make it slippery.

Marc

The squeal could be in the audio side or the IF side, it's hard to know without hearing it.

I didn't catch if you replaced all the caps or not... if you didn't then perhaps one of them is a dud.

Still, if it only happens for a few seconds, given how hard it is to work on, probably not worth your while to track down.

Hi Marc and Robbert. Thank you for your replys. All the paper wax type caps have been replaced along with most of the resistors . So Robbert I am thinking on the same lines , it is a pig to work on and it only lasts for a few seconds. I have the full manual form HRSA,that and other information I have received from you members and others has been a great help. Some very good documentation.was available whiteout it I may not have had the confidence to proceed. I am quite happy with the result so far. Still have to repair the dial lamp wiring and refit the dial hardware.
Marc . If you cannot turn it on its side due to the 80 rectifier how do you align it ? I don't think the wife would like me to cut a rectangular hole out of the dinning room table.
Regards Jim.

The feet on this are Bakelite discs about( old speak about 3/16" thick) so I can easilly make one . They look original but maybe you have me thinking if they were originally rubber type feet the rubber bits have perished off the other 3 . I will have to look at some pictures .
Regards Jim.

Jim re the squeal.
Sounds like there is a marginal problem, like IF instability.
Check the valve shields are really making good contact with the chassis and shielding the valves.
Ditto with all coil shields! Ohmeter between the shiels and chassis, rusted surface metal is your enemy.
Squealing for a short time upon turn on sounds like it only spills over as the HT is high and the AGC has not come up to normal value.
Once the AGC has pulled the front end gain back and the HT settled the gain is a bit lower and the marginal condition is not exceeded.
As you have not altered any signal wiring it probably is not wire dress, more likely a shield not making contact.

Re the alinement. Without instruments except your ears.
If the set tunes stations from one end of the dial to the other with pretty even volume, the coil set is probably close to matching (aerial and oscillator).
The logical thing would be to set the tuning on a mid range station and try adjusting each IF trimmer a tad to see if the volume changes.
The AGC defeats you a bit in doing that as it tends to level the volume out.
So its best to short the AGC line to ground and tune the set to a station that is not that strong.
THEN try turning the trimmers one way or the other to see if any are way out.
Leave in mid position.
Then, tune to a high end station and see if adjusting the tuning gang trimmer will improve the volume.

Thats about the end of nudging by ear.
Otherwise you need to go up a gear and use instruments to supply signal and read levels and set the lot to manufactuers specs.
You will need more table room to do that!

Fred.

Hi Fred ,thank you for your reply I will check some shielding. There are no top caps on the shield sleeves not sure if they are supposed to ,will look at some pics. If I attemp an alignment your method suits me better. I am not sure as yet if I will touch it. To be honest I just want rid of this radio and get the dinning room table back to normal. It will be good not to have the odd capacitor or resistor turning up in the mashed potatoes, not too good on the teeth, but what can you do ! I had another look at the feet and Marc is correct they are rubber the 3 remaining feet are a bit perished but ok I will need to find something to make up a fourth foot. Because this does not belong to me it has been quite stressful knowing how much they fetch I was worried about wrecking it, I will feel that way till I have given it back hopefully never to set eyes on it again. I can see all the hardware was great quality the valve bases are very good and I can see a lot of bits were nicely engineered .After I have finished it,I will be having a break from radios for a while (I think ) . I guess when I look back on this it will be different . When completed I will ask Brad to add some more pictures it looks quite tidy, especially for me.
Regards Jim.

Dial lamp assembly. I do not have the original lamp assembly. I was going to use one that I have to slide onto the metal post provided but in doing so I will have effectively grounded the insulated tuning gang so I will have to make something that insulates the lamp holder from the metal post provided on top of the dial assembly. You have to have your wits about you with this radio it has been a slow and painful progress and I can still fall into a trap.
Regards Jim

Replacing the rubber feet is complex. You locate the nearest Bunny Rabbit Warehouse or the lot that's gone to the dogs , who will have them in a packet of four: Viz one for each corner. All sorts of other temptations there as well.

The danger with #80 is the filaments. Basically a bit of flat strip in a duct. unfortunately if the flat strip (filament) sags (common) and it gets too close to the duct (plate), or hits it: Fireworks. There is only one position for #80 & 5Y3 (same thing different base) where that wont happen and in line with "Murphy", when your set is sideways that wont be it.

Normally upside down, or the scary, across a gap is the out. A lot of HMV sets all eras had a cage to allow that. Some people make a frame like one for a car engine, in principle to rotate the chassis.

They did make an insulated globe holder for floating dial globes

Marc

Jim, re the 80 rectifier being operated on its side:

It is true the datasheets advise against this in a design, unless the socket orientation is correct. Basically, you are OK if the filament base pins (the 2 fat ones) are in the horizontal plane.

But in 55 years experience with hundreds of radios and TVs servicing, chassis on side, using this design of rectifier (80, 5Y3, 5AS4, 5U4) I have never had it happen to me.

Have I been lucky? Maybe. Can I see how it can happen? Sure! But I reckon that in the short period of operation you need for testing and alignment, any rectifier that fails like that (unless it receives an additional mechanical shock at the same time), would have to have been marginal in the first place. In other words, it was about to fail anyway.

If you are worried, use a dim bulb. While I respect Marc's experience, I suspect he is being unnecessarily alarmist here.

In summary - DON'T WORRY!

Bad theory: I have seen around five # 80's & 5Y3 destroyed by the horizontal position, none by me & about 3 others from Turkeys who were told never to power a set of unknown history, or that has been sitting for yonks.

Best one recently: Deceased estate purchase by a collector I fix for. One of the above. Seller "Daddy restored it" (God knows when), so they powered it and it ended up on my bench. Caps presented as a short, couple of other issues & a new rectifier. They saved the second one they tried as it went red & they killed the switch.

Actually the Russian 5Y3 Used a couple have one; Has been ruggedised. It is built more like a 6X4 with plates like a tank on a stand, staggered & over & under (mirror image). Not an air-conditioning duct. Filament is like a hollow log up the centre, definitely robust and it acts like its got a cathode sleeve. So there is very little surge.

Seen a lot of radio's in over 50 years and am in a radio club (editor)

Marc

I have experienced a few arc overs whilst in the sideways position.
But probably due to me knocking the valve, or severe aging in which case it was about to fail anyway.
Just have your dim bulb tester in line and go for it Jimb.
If I try and count up how many repairs done since starting full time in the 1960’s, we may well guesstimate one arc over in maybe 10,000 repairs on units using directly heated cathodes.
In fact some TV’s using 5AS4’s were on their sides for hours or even days on the bench without memorable issues.
JJ

Thank you all for your replys. I won't have to cut a hole in the dining table. Have been advised by an AWA man from way back most will know him that it may not be necessary apart from the aerial trimmer on the gang which I am yet to locate. He says the components are very stable and has found no real gain from the he procedure. I have only changed the larger wax/paper type caps and the electro's and a few resistors . The smaller low value caps in the tuning sections are still original.
Kind regards .Jim

A little closer to completion. Cleaned up the case replaced the speaker cloth, dial, dial perspex and surround. Waiting on insulated dial globe holder. I will have to tap out the captive nuts on the bottom of the chassis. I do not have the screws I think they may be BA thread . I think the length will be about 15 mm.
Does anyone know what they were.
Regards Jim.