Just read details of USA's aviation battle against 5G emissions. Interesting technical points and facts here, and it reeks of profits first safety last.

The lower end of onboard aviation auto landing radar is around 4.2 GHz. The higher end of 5G spectrum in USA is 3.98 GHz. A bit too close some authorities have declared while others reckon it's OK. I would agree with the former, most of us have experienced "crosstalk", "co-channel interference" or whatever you want to call it, right?

But profits first, lets squeeze all safety margin for that extra ounce of profit, and someone agreed, now they have this mess. At the moment the offending Telcos have agreed to keep away from airports---not good enough say the radio guys. (Agree again mate)

To put those frequencies in perspective, Australia's 5G high end tops out at 3.7 GHz. India's at 3.6 GHz Europe's at 3.8 GHz. Plenty of buffer zone. But 3.98 GHz?? Someone fell asleep, or worse still, corruption maybe? Eager to watch how this plays out---.

But let's look at the bright side here. This is a huge win for the anti 5G headcases. They will run a mile with the headline without reading the boring technical bits.

I wasn't aware of this issue until now. Looking around here's one view of the situation:

https://wetmachine.com/tales-of-the-sausage-factory/what-the-eff-faa-my-insanely-long-field-guide-to-the-faa-fcc-5g-c-band-fight/

.... and here's a Boeing 777 pilot's view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=942KXXmMJdY

(The YouTube video is very talky. Suggest 1.25 speed.)

Very interesting Ian. I had no idea FAA and FCC were at each others throats, and although it's too early to take sides I remind myself how reluctant FAA were to ground Boeing when their 737's were misbehaving. I found that irresponsible, to say the least.

It took the president (Trump) to step in and order grounding of 737's, saving lives in the process. Both Boeing and FAA were OK with letting those computers fly themselves into a stall.

Haven't looked at the YouTube 777 pilots view yet, about to now---.

Just started watching youtube 777 pilot's view, seems I wrongly condemned FAA.
My cockup. Mixed them up with FCC when I read the ABC news articles this morning.

Apologies to FAA.

Very interesting Ian

I'm not Ian.

Speaking of Trump, you'll note it said that he told the Telcos/FCC to go out and win 'the 5G race':

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trzlirgXbac

Yikes! My second cockup for the day. Must chat with my doctor next well overdue check up.

Good video by the way, fantastic technical stuff, looks like FCC are the baddies and FAA the goodies. I will check the ABC news articles that I read this morning and if I misread that as well then this may be my last post----damn this brain fog.

Watching a few episodes of Air Crash Investigation and similar programs shows that when it comes to aircraft operations, many small problems, equipment faults or pilot errors will sooner or later combine to cause a crash. There is no such thing as a 'fail safe' system when aircraft are being flown in difficult conditions. The deficiencies of air pressure altimeters was the reason why radar altimeters were developed to prevent 'controlled decent into terrain' situations. Aircraft instruments were designed and tested to meet rigorous standards because safety was crucial so it seems insane to implement something that has the potential to make a key flight instrument unreliable. Again in the analysis of accidents it has been shown that an instrument that may or may not be accurate is more dangerous than something that just fails and is obviously not working; pilots do not need distractions when flying close to the ground when the problem is most likely to occur.

To suggest that the responsibility to have a interference immune altimeter should rest with the aircraft operators after the problem has been created by the telcos is nonsense. I wonder what the response would be if the telcos were to be required to pay for all aircraft to be refitted with new altimeters? Perhaps the airlines should be allowed to install high power mobile jammers (old technology dating back to WWII) as part of their nav aid kit?

One can have interesting experiences with aircraft on, or close to ground level, like hitting a Willy Willy in the landing roll, having the flaps just make it up before the electrical system quit; take off rotation. Droving the sheep off the runway so you can take off; Taking out the odd Hare.

Then we had a runway with a cemetery at the 08 end and there's a holding pattern developing as Nonna is walking home to depart 26.

Best one; Winter, late afternoon. Set up for a nice landing on 08, only to spot a kid riding a bike down the middle of the runway. Don't think the prop missed him by much, on the gotar. Some one had kicked him off the runway earlier that day.

Who said country flying was boring.

People have been bellyaching about 5G bringing on the end of the human race since the term "5G" was first uttered. There was a similar hate campaign by these dope smokers on 4G and nothing happened. As has been said here and in recent news reports, the issue facing the US is down to frequency use, not the 5G protocol itself.

The anti-5G brigade will however waste no time in continuing to be a fountain of misinformation on the issue and the MSM should stop giving the idiots airtime. As 5G continues to roll out across the world, governments have been considering the shut down of 3G. When 3G shuts down, 4G phones will not be able to make calls unless they are compatible with VOLTE (voice over 4G) because when making standard phone calls, a 4G phone will back down to 3G for the duration of the call.

This will ultimately make a 5G phone necessary. There doesn't appear to be any immediate plans to shut down 3G here which is good because I don't plan on upgrading to 5G soon. I don't object to 5G, it is just that 4G suits my needs and the hardware still works well.

Telstra will be shutting down 3G in June, 2024.

https://www.telstra.com.au/business-enterprise/support/3g-service-closure

My phone is an ancient Nokia, only capable of CDMA(2G) and 3G. No QR-codes, and no internet because the certificates expired.

I don't want to spend thousands on some plastic chinese rubbish that will be disowned by the maker a few years later. But it seems I won't have a choice.

3G will be interesting as that is all my mobile can unreliably get. The Phone is capable of 4G but!.

If you want to google it I am along Wangandary Rd; West of Wangaratta. the nearest Telstra tower is about 4Km East. Short tower on the three mile creek at around 140m AMSL. I am at 150 to160m AMSL (climbing ground). A continuous run of phones, with an endless line of BS from Telstra will not have anything to do with a Wangaratta transmitter by way of a suitable signal. Note from day one of Digital.

Now in both houses I have lived in, the second one being NW a Kilometre away and 158m AMSL with uninterrupted line of sight to Beechworth phone tower.

Recently, being a profit area, they upgraded it to 5G. There went my signal and that of a monitoring device. bear in mind Beechworth by Google measure is 40Km away line of sight. So as they advertised a contact in relation to the impending interruption & the phone was getting the message as well.

I decided to go phishing & write to them and was shocked to see them take the bait. This actually pointed out that they had no intention of addressing the issue. So this is going to be another ruse like the 2019 bushfires.

They will hold off hoping for a natural disaster like 2019, where communications were third world, or worse. This of course means that Telstra suddenly gets a bucket full of taxpayer disaster funding, as a racket to put towers in these low profit areas, at our expense while they reap the benefit & it doesn't affect their bottom line.

Certificates or not, 3G already no longer supports the 'Net that well or photos attached to text messages because most of the bandwidth is reserved for voice. It still works but 56k was faster by comparison.

Yes Marcc I remember from my Army days which involved many hours flying as observer/navigator/additional crew/passenger in fixed wing and rotary wing aircraft it could get very interesting once the altimeter indicated that we were below 1000 feet and there was little room to climb or bank if something solid suddenly appeared. Besides the natural and people hazards you mentioned, any form of obstruction such as trees on hills, radio towers, power lines strung across valleys, dust, smoke, low cloud, fog, haze and sun glare made things difficult when operating VFR. Given that military aircraft also had to operate at night in the same conditions meant that it was essential that the flight and nav instruments were reliable. Army, Navy and RAAF pilots were required to fly in 'challenging' conditions when any civilian pilot would sensibly choose to stay on the ground.

Addressing Brad's comments on 3G, 4G and 5G, the particularly annoying aspect is that the effective range of the phone is being progressively reduced. The telcos appear to have decided that a phone is not meant to used to speak over these days and that higher data rates is all that matters.

Back in the 'early' days of mobile phones there was a CDMA network that was effective in country areas but that was deliberately shut down to make way for 3G because that would be more profitable in the cities. When my parents were alive I regularly drove from Canberra to Adelaide across the Hay Plains. With three 2G phones (one with Telstra, one with Optus and one with Vodaphone) I had voice comms for the whole 1100Km trip.

Then 3G replaced 2G and there was only 10-15Km coverage either side of the various towns along the way and gaps of no signal 100-200Km in between. I got to know the bends in the road as I came with range of a tower where a phone would 'ding' to announce a missed call and then another bend the other side when the signal would drop out. Then with 4G (Telstra only) the coverage would start and end at the road signs denoting the town borders.

Back home in Canberra I now have to use a 4G phone as a WiFi 'hot spot' as the FTTN NBN does not work over the 30 year old phone cable. There is a 5G tower 3Km away line-of-site but that is too far away for the 5G signal and tests with a neighbour's shiny new 5G phone show that it just drops back to 4G. (He was less than impressed when I showed him that the extra money he was paying for a 5G plan was wasted unless he was prepared to stand next to the tower whenever he wanted to use his phone.)

The old Wangaratta landing strip in itself was fun. If there was no crosswind that was always entertaining. Coming in 26 in winter was extra fun. There were two power lines on approach so no coming in low. In winter all of the heating would cause an updraft and the prevailing NW wind would see it end around 200 to 500m from the blast area: That sudden sinking feeling if you were not aware.

Naturally if there was a stiff breeze the odd kite would appear on short final. I always said getting a plane into the air was relatively easy: Landing was an entirely different matter.

Best bit of genius (of several) I have seen from Telstra was to run an optic fibre cable from Bundalong near the junction of the Ovens & Murray Rivers to Wangandary RAX & then one mile toward Wangaratta where one spur went to Wangaratta and the other to Warby RAX to probably join the main cable to Melbourne. The cable could not handle data.