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 Intermediate Frequency for an Essanay Bantum
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 Return to top of page · Post #: 16 · Written at 5:18:39 PM on 11 January 2018.
Brad's avatar
 Administrator
 Location: Naremburn, NSW
 Member since 15 November 2005
 Member #: 1
 Postcount: 7304

Images uploaded.


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A valve a day keeps the transistor away...

 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 17 · Written at 6:18:30 PM on 11 January 2018.
GTC's avatar
 GTC
 Location: Sydney, NSW
 Member since 28 January 2011
 Member #: 823
 Postcount: 6687

Your radio looks very similar to this one, which has 3 knobs, but alas no model description given:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/3d/b7/5d/3db75d0fe82fb710cd91ef551978c1fe.jpg

The photographic setting looks familiar. One of the regular eBay sellers perhaps?


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 18 · Written at 7:25:09 PM on 11 January 2018.
BringBackTheValve's Gravatar
 Location: Linton, VIC
 Member since 30 December 2016
 Member #: 2028
 Postcount: 467

Sam, (and everyone else)

My apologies for bursting in like that.

I will move it all to an appropriate thread.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 19 · Written at 10:50:22 PM on 11 January 2018.
Marcc's avatar
 Location: Wangaratta, VIC
 Member since 21 February 2009
 Member #: 438
 Postcount: 5256

The Oscillograph was taken connected to what? The wobble says there was poor sync and there is a lot of AC hum, not necessarily from the radio. That can be filtering within the CRO & having no earth on the set.

What was it trying to show? If it was calibrating it should not be in the RF, but hooked to the plate of the OP tube. Beware of the input voltage limitations of the CRO. Even there it should not have a pattern like that. I should fire up one of the CRO & photograph the pattern. One early RCA data sheet surprised me by having drawn patterns of what an Oscilloscope should show at several points. Fascinating as at that time a CRO would be a rare & expensive item, far beyond the means of many repairing.

On that subject: A knot in the cable is no longer legal & the anchorage is inferior as the cable can twist and fatigue off (seen it). I will use a gland (pointy end in) and a 3 wire (suicide cable). Those can be got with a cloth cover & sealed plug. Albeit I have seen some with recycled domestic iron cords.

As I am frequently repairing sets I deliberately built a box that contains caps to not only DC block, but to reduce the signal level (attenuate). We only need mV, only the audio needs signal volts in some places (OP grid 1). This box also couples a CRO sync to the audio of the Generator and the generator to the counter. That saves having wires everywhere & its all coax.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 20 · Written at 12:41:36 AM on 12 January 2018.
Brad's avatar
 Administrator
 Location: Naremburn, NSW
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The photos are fine except for slight blurriness. This can be fixed by moving the camera back, zooming in if extra detail is required and also putting more light on the subject.

When cameras operate in low light on automatic they hold the shutter open longer to raise the light level artificially. This can lead to the camera shake effect. If you put as much light as can realistically be obtained on the subject the shutter speed will increase and there is less chance of the shutter being open long enough to capture any movement.


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A valve a day keeps the transistor away...

 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 21 · Written at 1:27:15 AM on 12 January 2018.
GTC's avatar
 GTC
 Location: Sydney, NSW
 Member since 28 January 2011
 Member #: 823
 Postcount: 6687

When cameras operate in low light on automatic they hold the shutter open longer to raise the light level artificially. This can lead to the camera shake effect

Hence my mention of pursuing anti-shake technology. I've taken some very low light (non-flash) hand held shots on my SLR and anti-shake has saved the day every time. It's magic!


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 22 · Written at 9:33:14 AM on 12 January 2018.
Marcc's avatar
 Location: Wangaratta, VIC
 Member since 21 February 2009
 Member #: 438
 Postcount: 5256

I have mentioned some of these things: The best anti shake is a tripod & not all camera's (eg phones) have the 3/16" or 1/4" nut built in for a tripod: But there are work arounds .

Whist a digital camera works slightly differently, the most misunderstood camera lens function is "hyperfocal distance" aka "depth in field".
This is related to the shutter "f stop" number and is like squinting an eye to get a sharper focus.

The easy thing to remember is that the higher is the "f stop" number the greater is the depth in field and the worse the sharpness in motion (blurring of a moving object). Generally: The lowest shutter speed for a hand held photo in daylight is 1/30 of a sec. The closer you get to an object the shallower is the depth in field.

The shutter, as can be seen by squinting an eye or watching the effect with a camera with a manual preview on the shutter (Bronica 645 Studio: Film) is actually a focusing device. On many film cameras like the Bronica, the lens has a depth of field guide on the lens. This shows how far either side of focus will be sharp. With a digital you will have preview before firing so hopefully you can see its wrong. You need it sharp from centre of focus, to the depth of say the pan.

Auto focus can be your undoing close in. Often with a sets pan, it is better to kill the auto focus and pick an object in free space the centre of the pan. and focus on that. This is where the tripod wins.

The next compromise is juggling light, f stop & distance. This is why we have "aperture priority" You need to get a distance & stop that renders all of what you need to see & make sure that there is enough light. The higher the stop the higher the light requirement. Flash & shiny metal are a worry & you may have to diffuse it (tissue).

As I and Brad have noted, this may require taking too much picture by stepping back and then cropping. I do this regularly.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 23 · Written at 10:04:10 AM on 12 January 2018.
Ian Robertson's Gravatar
 Location: Belrose, NSW
 Member since 31 December 2015
 Member #: 1844
 Postcount: 2372

Hey, I use an IPhone 4 and as much light as I can get. Daylight is best, particularly if you are shooting a black object. Particularly for me, I have fairly shaky hands.

The trick with the IPhone (shown to me by one of my grandkids) is to touch the subject on the screen prior to pressing the shutter. The IPhone's camera will focus on that object.

All my grandkids are fascinated by how small Grandpa's phone is. One of the few things these days that have got bigger!

I have access to a digital SLR and a tripod but the smartphone's camera often seems to outperform it.

BACK TO THE SUBJECT:

The IF for your radio will almost certainly be 455kHz, it being 1937 vintage. Try that first. If it tunes up but you can't get the dial to track (using mechanical, padder, gang trimmer) see if setting it to 465kHz helps. The IFTs don't look like 175kHz types and the set is likely too new to have 175kHz IF.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 24 · Written at 8:50:46 AM on 13 January 2018.
Marcc's avatar
 Location: Wangaratta, VIC
 Member since 21 February 2009
 Member #: 438
 Postcount: 5256

As we don't know who built it and from what we do not at this point where the bits came from. I have actually seen one AWA with 460kHz (not uncommon) & a one off special, based on it, with 455kHz & The special be converted to self bias whilst the production on was back biased.

If you had a counter, sometimes if it has not been overly got at & its working you can put it on a known frequency & then see what the oscillator is running at? Beware of voltages: Some modern equipment cannot withstand valve radio voltages.

Suspicion re why one IFT has a hex nut the other square?


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 25 · Written at 8:08:19 PM on 8 March 2018.
Wilbertt's Gravatar
 Location: Sandon, VIC
 Member since 8 March 2018
 Member #: 2224
 Postcount: 2

Hi, i'm a newby, came across this because I was looking for the valve configuration, which is similar to yours, my chassis is identical to the one pictured at the beginning of this thread, it has been modified with an adaptor to round pin in the rectifier socket with a 6al3 in it, otherwise the other valves are the same. My radio is an "airplayer dual wave midget", and it is in a timber cabinet. I have two issues and was hoping to find a circuit. My EBL1 has broken away from the base, and am not sure whether the 6al3 is right, secondly there are two resisters in parallel coming from pin 7 on the socket of the AK2 and too difficult to see where the other end ends up as wires are all the same colour.
, not sure what they are doing but have overheated, so obviously not the right wattage or could be signs of a problem.
thanks in advance.
PS sorry forgot to mention it has had the caps done, and the charred resister would also have been part of that refurb.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 26 · Written at 8:26:52 PM on 8 March 2018.
Wilbertt's Gravatar
 Location: Sandon, VIC
 Member since 8 March 2018
 Member #: 2224
 Postcount: 2

Hi, as I was writing I thought I had the number wrong, not 6al3 but 6X5GT hmm brain fade, now that doesn't seem right, if original was an 80 then it has filament volt of 5 not 6.3, and lower current, my philips book suggests 5Y3GT is what it should be??
thanks


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 27 · Written at 8:42:44 AM on 9 March 2018.
Robbbert's avatar
 Location: Hill Top, NSW
 Member since 18 September 2015
 Member #: 1801
 Postcount: 2015

You wouldn't want to use a 6AL3... it's a TV valve, half wave rectifier with a 9-pin miniature base, and a connection at the top.

If you replaced the 80's 4-pin socket with an 8-pin octal socket, then you could use a 5Y3GT.

Maybe you could post a photo of the area affected.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 28 · Written at 9:54:21 AM on 9 March 2018.
Marcc's avatar
 Location: Wangaratta, VIC
 Member since 21 February 2009
 Member #: 438
 Postcount: 5256

This was going well until we had another site crash?

Going over Old ground: The pin configuration & wiring of the rectifier is always a clue as to what should be in there.

6AL3 is 6.3V, 9 pin heater type, single diode (half wave). Heaters 3 & 4, Plate pin 9.
That will have an effect on the voltage developed. Positive would come of a top cap (cathode) and I see one valve in a photo, that may be it and dangerous if the TC is not insulated.

#80 is a UX4 Dual Diode (full wave); The big pins 1 & 4 are its filament; the two small ones plates. The 5V 2A filament is also B+ and the 5V filament winding must float.

5Y3 is an #80 with octal base pins 2 & 8 are its filament, Plates 4 & 6.

6X5 is also a full wave rectifier (octal) but a 6.3V 0.6A heater valve. Heaters pins 2 & 7; Cathode pin 8; Plates pins 3 & 5. Some versions were notorious for heater cathode shorting. Especially if it was in a Zenith.

EZ2 is listed as equivalent to 6X5 but is ā€œPā€ base

AL2 etc are ā€œPā€ base and most 4V.

AZ1 / AZ31 is not listed a UX4 AZ1 is "P" Base the other Octal.

In another photo with possibly rectifier, we note the air space around the socket. To me that suggests the the hole was originally for a larger "P" base socket.


 
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