Welcome to Australia's only Vintage Radio and Television discussion forums. You are not logged in. Please log in below, apply for an account or retrieve your password.
Australian Vintage Radio Forums
  Home  ·  About Us  ·  Discussion Forums  ·  Glossary  ·  Outside Links  ·  Policies  ·  Services Directory  ·  Safety Warnings  ·  Tutorials

Tech Talk

Forum home - Go back to Tech talk

 What's this radio
« Back · 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · Next »
 Return to top of page · Post #: 16 · Written at 8:48:53 AM on 4 February 2017.
Fred Lever's Gravatar
 Location: Toongabbie, NSW
 Member since 19 November 2015
 Member #: 1828
 Postcount: 1345

Good for you, take note of what Marcc says he does this stuff all the time.
My wood working skills? I just glue and nail bits of wood together and then spray a thick coat of colour and gloss over the top, that must make the cabinet makers feel faint!
Marcc is dead right about photographs, 20 - 30 shots or more of the chassis from all angles so you can see where every part was sitting and the relation of pins on sockets and coils. I then aim to have a "kit" of parts to rebuild the set as though from scratch like a Jaycar kit.
Take a look at the Kriesler set I rebuilt in special projects where I approached it from that angle. By the time you have the kit ready you will KNOW the set so well and with the photographs you will put it back together just like the guys on the assembly line except you have no dead line! I was lucky with that Kriesler in that the wiring was a made up as a loom dropped in mass production style rather than a skimpy point to point method. Being me on other sets I just stick in modern plastic wire and that probably makes some other people feel faint but I see you have access to the proper cloth braided stuff so that will make it look better. And get rid of that figure 8 power cable! I feel faint when I see that stuff! Proper clamped 3 core earthed is the way to go even if its not original.
Fred Lever.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 17 · Written at 10:50:44 AM on 4 February 2017.
Tallar Carl's avatar
 Location: Latham, ACT
 Member since 21 February 2015
 Member #: 1705
 Postcount: 2198

Yes I agree Fred . The old power wire always needs to go . This baby is really firing me up.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 18 · Written at 1:11:24 PM on 4 February 2017.
Tallar Carl's avatar
 Location: Latham, ACT
 Member since 21 February 2015
 Member #: 1705
 Postcount: 2198

Ok I have done a continuity test on the transformer and all is good. It pumps out 380 volts to the rectifier and 8 volts to the heater circuit which is a little too high as the dial bulb keeps blowing. Would the answer to this be to connect a resistor to bring it down to 6 volts. And what value resister would I need to look at.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 19 · Written at 4:26:12 PM on 4 February 2017.
Johnny's avatar
 Location: Hobart, TAS
 Member since 31 July 2016
 Member #: 1959
 Postcount: 575

Something wrong there.
Must be on the wrong primary winding tap for 230/240 volts.
JJ


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 20 · Written at 8:06:53 PM on 4 February 2017.
Tallar Carl's avatar
 Location: Latham, ACT
 Member since 21 February 2015
 Member #: 1705
 Postcount: 2198

It's all good now. Its fun chasing other people's faults lol (not). I have replaced the flaking insulation from the heater taps and found one of the existing electros installed backwards. All voltages are NOW correct but the speaker is rats&!t and so is the speaker tranny so I have to replace the field coil and the speaker transformer and speaker. Then it should work lol. I am told a 10k resister should do the job or a choke.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 21 · Written at 8:42:53 PM on 4 February 2017.
Marcc's avatar
 Location: Wangaratta, VIC
 Member since 21 February 2009
 Member #: 438
 Postcount: 5488

How can all of the voltages be correct and the speaker tranny be RS. If the speaker transformer has an open primary the voltages will be high and you risk wiping out the screen if it's a Pentode: It will have little voltage on the plate with an open transformer. If the heavy windings on the outside are exposed & not damaged, it's likely not broke. The wrap over bracket will come off & the bobbin can be taken out.


The choke is rarely above 3K The DC resistance of the choke, if its good, is what you use an current squared by resistance = Watts, applies.

Plastic cored cloth wire is available. Don't bin the old stuff, some may be recyclable, or you use it for the pattern for the new. and label where you got it from.

Beware exuberance, assumptions, jumping in both feet and poor methodology are a dangerous combination.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 22 · Written at 9:49:44 PM on 4 February 2017.
Tallar Carl's avatar
 Location: Latham, ACT
 Member since 21 February 2015
 Member #: 1705
 Postcount: 2198

The tech that's been teaching me has gone right over it. The speaker transformer is definitely open circuit and the speaker itself is rusted and frozen solid. I will be replacing the speaker and transformer. Thanks Marcc for letting me know the resistor or choke value. Once I get those issues sorted there may be more but hopefully not. We are both of the opinion that this radio never worked because the initial builder has really made some stuffups.

Unknown Radio
Unknown Radio
Unknown Radio
Unknown Radio
Unknown Radio
Unknown Radio


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 23 · Written at 10:33:11 PM on 4 February 2017.
Brad's avatar
 Administrator
 Location: Naremburn, NSW
 Member since 15 November 2005
 Member #: 1
 Postcount: 7473

Supplementary photos added to Post 22.


‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾
A valve a day keeps the transistor away...

 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 24 · Written at 11:46:32 AM on 6 February 2017.
Ian Robertson's Gravatar
 Location: Belrose, NSW
 Member since 31 December 2015
 Member #: 1844
 Postcount: 2544

"We are both of the opinion that this radio never worked because the initial builder has really made some stuffups."

Ahem....!

Have a look at the first picture of the front of the radio. The wear around the knobs.
Looks to me like it's been used a lot!


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 25 · Written at 12:28:56 PM on 6 February 2017.
Johnny's avatar
 Location: Hobart, TAS
 Member since 31 July 2016
 Member #: 1959
 Postcount: 575

Well spotted Ian.
I always used to tell my apprentices to have a good visual inspection before diving in.
Smile
JJ


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 26 · Written at 1:27:25 PM on 6 February 2017.
Bushman's Gravatar
 Location: Kempsey, NSW
 Member since 6 December 2016
 Member #: 2019
 Postcount: 37

Hi everyone,

I note in Post #14 Marcc made the comment that the chassis would need a molasses bath or similar. Would you be referring to actual molasses to treat the rust on the chassis as well as other components?

Or would you be referring to a rust treatment solution that is generically called molasses because of its similarity to molasses. I have not heard of this other than anti-rust treatments commonly sold in hardware stores and auto parts stores.

The radio I am restoring needs some rust work done on it, generally on the metal frame that holds the 6 valves.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 27 · Written at 1:50:59 PM on 6 February 2017.
GTC's avatar
 GTC
 Location: Sydney, NSW
 Member since 28 January 2011
 Member #: 823
 Postcount: 6824

Would you be referring to actual molasses to treat the rust on the chassis as well as other components?

Yes, a bath of molasses diluted about 1:10 with water is a good rust remover, but it pongs to high heaven so don't do it indoors.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 28 · Written at 4:41:27 PM on 6 February 2017.
Tallar Carl's avatar
 Location: Latham, ACT
 Member since 21 February 2015
 Member #: 1705
 Postcount: 2198

There may have been plenty of to and throw with the knobs but I can assure you that it was impossible that it worked. Some of the original caps ( electros)were in backwards. Children could have been playing with it. The fellow teaching me is a professional tech that used to work for Reliance Radio.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 29 · Written at 8:53:25 PM on 6 February 2017.
Ian Robertson's Gravatar
 Location: Belrose, NSW
 Member since 31 December 2015
 Member #: 1844
 Postcount: 2544

Tallar, I've had a close look at the pictures and traced a few things. Enough to draw you a circuit.

It's messy but it looks OK to me. And mate I really do know what I am talking about. I design much more complex things than AM radios, have done so for more years than I care to remember. If you visit the website associated with the URL where my email is hosted you'll see some of my work.....

That electro that looks like it's in backwards is actually correct. It's bypassing the back bias. Not an elegant or common way of doing things but it is still legit. There would have been the - side of another electro connected to the junction of the 75 ohm and the yellow electro.....

That 75 ohm resistor is between the CT of the HT secondary and ground. It's the back bias for the EL3. The volume pot is wired to the cathodes of the 6A8 and 6G8. Correct for the period, no AGC there.

Back bias can get very confusing, especially if it's been wired in an untidy way.

The reason the EL3 is so close to the case is because the chassis was originally cut for the P-socket version of the EL3 and it's been adapted for the G version, probably for supply reasons. The side contact P socket has the base of the valve fitting into a cavity in the socket. That puts it about 30mm lower. The bottom of the glass bulb about level with the chassis.

I would suggest, if you really want to restore this radio, be assured it is possible, but it's a helluva lot of work. The 2nd radio I ever did was an Airzone Radio Star that was a basket case that had been written off by previous collectors. It looked much the same as yours, except the IF transformers were full of mouse/rat poo on top of all the rust.

I stripped the tuning gang and the speaker, restoring them to as-new condition. The trimmers in the IFTs were also stripped down to the individual leaves and micas, cleaned and reassembled. All the paper caps were melted out, the cases cleaned, new caps installed inside and the ends sealed with hot-melt glue. New slotted head screws everywhere.

The radio now looks like it's fresh from the factory, except that I did this about 12 years ago and it now has a nice internal layer of dust - it's hard to tell now it's been restored, it just looks like it's been well looked after!

What you do is make a drawing of the underside of the chassis, all the valve sockets (numbered) and IFT wires. As you cut (or preferably unsolder) each part out, draw it on your diagram. Send me your diagram and I'll draw you a nice CAD schematic. I'm serious, I want to help.

Strip EVERYTHING off the chassis and preferably get it bead blasted. You can then re-paint it. Same goes for all the parts.

Get the idea?


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 30 · Written at 7:26:29 AM on 7 February 2017.
Tallar Carl's avatar
 Location: Latham, ACT
 Member since 21 February 2015
 Member #: 1705
 Postcount: 2198

The Electro that was wired in backwards is actually not visible in those photos. It's buried under everything in the 2nd last photo top left near the antenna and earth terminals. The paper cap you can see running alongside the rear of the chassis is terminated to either side of the electro which is underneath.


 
« Back · 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · Next »
 You need to be a member to post comments on this forum.

Sign In

Username:
Password:
 Keep me logged in.
Do not tick box on a computer with public access.