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 AWA CHAMPION 4 429 MA question for Brad
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 Return to top of page · Post #: 16 · Written at 9:57:24 PM on 4 April 2020.
Tallar Carl's avatar
 Location: Latham, ACT
 Member since 21 February 2015
 Member #: 1705
 Postcount: 2174

Somebody did fiddle a bit with this set. There were lengths of wire hanging off the speaker tags which were rolled up and left hanging. Also there was a fair bit of shiny thread on the IF cans, when I made that disappear it did sound better , I did a alignment by ear.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 17 · Written at 1:50:42 PM on 5 April 2020.
Irext's avatar
 Location: Werribee South, VIC
 Member since 30 September 2016
 Member #: 1981
 Postcount: 485

You really need a modulated RF source at the IF frequency to optimize sensitivity.
Especially if someone has had a go at it.
Many years ago when I routinely repaired older radio's (in the 70"s) an IF alignment often brought them back to life.
Instead of reaching for the volume control to turn it up you were turning it down.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 18 · Written at 3:16:31 PM on 5 April 2020.
Ian Robertson's Gravatar
 Location: Belrose, NSW
 Member since 31 December 2015
 Member #: 1844
 Postcount: 2476

Yes, true.

Unless the IF is aligned to the correct centre frequency you'll never get the dial to track.

That's why I suggested a touch-up, where you only turn the cores a tiny bit at a time, it's generally all you need to do after replacing say the IF amp valve. If it's been fiddled with, though, all bets are off and you need to align the IF to a reference oscillator.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 19 · Written at 10:58:42 AM on 6 April 2020.
Duconbuster's Gravatar
 Location: Riddells Creek, VIC
 Member since 7 August 2009
 Member #: 526
 Postcount: 123

Your workshop, depending on distance from the Main Switch Board.... If it’s a seperate building may have been wired as a “seperate installation” ie having it’s own earth seperate to the main buildings.
The effects of this may be your answer


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 20 · Written at 11:01:13 AM on 6 April 2020.
Brad's avatar
 Administrator
 Location: Naremburn, NSW
 Member since 15 November 2005
 Member #: 1
 Postcount: 7395

Sub boards aren't allowed to have an independent earth. The earth busbar on all sub boards must be connected to the one on the main board, where the EP bonds also connect.


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A valve a day keeps the transistor away...

 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 21 · Written at 11:24:50 AM on 6 April 2020.
Duconbuster's Gravatar
 Location: Riddells Creek, VIC
 Member since 7 August 2009
 Member #: 526
 Postcount: 123

My interpretation may be off here... but below seems to describe the dB in an outbuilding to be considered a msb an have it’s own earth? You’ve got my head spinning now Brad Whoa
AS/NZS 3000 (2007) states:
5.5.3 Particular methods of earthing
5.5.3.1 Outbuildings
All parts of an electrical installation in or on an outbuilding that are required to be earthed in accordance with Clause 5.4 shall be earthed by one of the following methods:

(a) Connection to the electrical installation earthing system The earthing system in the outbuilding shall be connected to a protective earthing conductor connected in accordance with Clause 5.5.2.1.

(b) Separate MEN installation The earthing system in the outbuilding shall be connected to the submain neutral conductor supplying the outbuilding. In this case the submain neutral conductor supplying the outbuilding is a combined protective earthing and neutral (PEN) conductor.
The electrical installation in the outbuilding shall be regarded as a separate electrical installation, and shall be earthed in accordance with other relevant Clauses of this Standard and with the following requirements:
(i) There shall be not more than one MEN connection in any one outbuilding.
(ii) The distribution board in the outbuilding shall be regarded as a main switchboard for the purpose of effecting the MEN connection.
(iii) The earthing conductor between the distribution board in the outbuilding and the earth electrode shall be regarded as a main earthing conductor for the purposes of earthing of the electrical installation in the outbuilding.
(iv) The submain supplying the outbuilding shall be run either—
(A) directly from the main switchboard; or
(B) from the main switchboard via distribution boards in one or more other outbuildings, to one distribution board only in the outbuilding.
(v) Where the combined protective earthing and neutral (PEN) conductor supplying the distribution board in the outbuilding runs from the main switchboard via distribution boards in one or more other outbuildings, the terminals on such distribution boards shall
not be depended on for continuity of the combined protective earthing and neutral (PEN) conductor.
(vi) The combined protective earthing and neutral (PEN) conductor supplying the distribution board in the outbuilding should not be connected in parallel, by means of earthing or equipotential bonding conductors, with conductive pipes or structural metal
within the electrical installation.
NOTE: Particular care is required where conductive pipes and such items as telecommunication cable sheaths, covered walkways, etc may be continuous between separate buildings and thus establish a parallel earth/neutral path.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 22 · Written at 1:13:07 PM on 6 April 2020.
Brad's avatar
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 Location: Naremburn, NSW
 Member since 15 November 2005
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RE: Point (i) - it says one MEN connection but implies that it can be located in any one building. This may well be the current AS requirement but the supply authority service rules state that it must be at the main switchboard in an installation. Both AS3000 and the service rules must be considered when connecting a load to the public network.


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A valve a day keeps the transistor away...

 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 23 · Written at 2:10:03 PM on 6 April 2020.
Marcc's avatar
 Location: Wangaratta, VIC
 Member since 21 February 2009
 Member #: 438
 Postcount: 5389

I would disagree on the IF comment. The IF is a series of resonant coils mainly 455kHz (but not always).

The 455kHz is produced by the difference between the oscillator and the incoming radio signal. That area is where tracking all goes wrong.

The IF merely passes 455kHz and attenuates it when its off frequency The other two are where bandwith & trackig comes in, as coils can change & Monkey's fiddle with padders.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 24 · Written at 2:29:07 PM on 6 April 2020.
Ian Robertson's Gravatar
 Location: Belrose, NSW
 Member since 31 December 2015
 Member #: 1844
 Postcount: 2476

If the IF is incorrect it affects the tracking. Do the maths. If the passband is other than the frequency for which the radio is designed and the front end is calibrated, it will shift the stations on the dial. If you then attempt to correct that by other means, the radio will mis-track.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 25 · Written at 2:32:14 PM on 6 April 2020.
Duconbuster's Gravatar
 Location: Riddells Creek, VIC
 Member since 7 August 2009
 Member #: 526
 Postcount: 123

Thanks Brad for clarification ..wording appears almost for a lawyer the way they write them..!
Apologies for the detour off the main thread, anything new learnt in a day however means it was a good day Smile


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 26 · Written at 5:21:56 PM on 6 April 2020.
Brad's avatar
 Administrator
 Location: Naremburn, NSW
 Member since 15 November 2005
 Member #: 1
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All of the rules and regs can be onerous at times though it is a simpler system than it once was. The service rules are the same throughout NSW these days and it's been like this for a long time. I think the first statewide service rules came out around 1994 or 1995. I cannot remember the exact time. Before that, each county council had its own service rules.

In Sydney there was the Sydney County Council for the eastern half of the metro area and the Prospect County Council for the western half. So there was an issue with dealing with two supply authorities in the one town an the 'border' was at James Ruse Drive at Granville to the north of Parramatta Road and (I think) Woodville Road to the south. Even to this day, you can see wires on poles terminate and not cross the roads.

In Victoria it was a bit different, as there were no separate retailers and the electricity commission there was vertically integrated. Electricity retailing in NSW was once managed by local government. I have to say that dealing with the installation inspectors and connecting officers at the SCC was a little easier than with Prospect. I tried to avoid working in Prospect's area where possible as they seemed to enjoy their jobs a bit too much.


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A valve a day keeps the transistor away...

 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 27 · Written at 8:53:48 PM on 6 April 2020.
Marcc's avatar
 Location: Wangaratta, VIC
 Member since 21 February 2009
 Member #: 438
 Postcount: 5389

We are obviously looking at "tracking" from a different point of view & terminology. That's like the American forum ask a question & get a variety of answers.

I view the IF train as being a fixed frequency item and tracking the inability of the oscillator & perhaps antenna to produce the frequency.

So my view: If the mixer / osc is generating the correct, frequency and the IF is resonated on the wrong frequency it will attenuate the signal.

If the IF is right and the mixer / osc is producing the wrong frequency, then it again will attenuated by the IF

However, at the end of the day all it boils down to is perhaps one being pedantic; If it is not calibrated properly and producing the right frequencies at the mixer, don't expect it to work well


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 28 · Written at 12:17:53 PM on 8 April 2020.
Irext's avatar
 Location: Werribee South, VIC
 Member since 30 September 2016
 Member #: 1981
 Postcount: 485

If you want to see a very worthwhile youtube video on IF and RF alignment of old valve radio's then look at David Tiptons youtube channel.
He does IF alignments on virtually every radio he restores and the video's are wonderfully detailed.
He turns Sows ears into Silk purses repeatedly.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 29 · Written at 2:11:11 AM on 9 April 2020.
Tallar Carl's avatar
 Location: Latham, ACT
 Member since 21 February 2015
 Member #: 1705
 Postcount: 2174

The power board for my home is right next the shed window.


 
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