Any wonder some SMPS distribute tons of RFI?
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Location: Sydney, NSW
Member since 28 January 2011
Member #: 823
Postcount: 6761
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Here is a switch mode power supply sold in the UK by Maplin -- their equivalent of Dick Smith Electronics, and like DSE now merely an online shop.
Presumably sourced from China, this effort serves to show the cynical disregard exhibited by such manufacturers towards regulations regarding Electromagnetic Compatibility (EMC).
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Administrator
Location: Naremburn, NSW
Member since 15 November 2005
Member #: 1
Postcount: 7395
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I didn't think Dick Smith was still around. After some brief research, it's a branch of the Kogan empire now. So be careful when ordering off them, if they are like their new big brother, your inbox will be flooded with spam every day.
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A valve a day keeps the transistor away...
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Location: Sydney, NSW
Member since 28 January 2011
Member #: 823
Postcount: 6761
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it's a branch of the Kogan empire now
Yep, and Kogan's prices are way over the top.
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Location: Belrose, NSW
Member since 31 December 2015
Member #: 1844
Postcount: 2477
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The reason the mains filter parts are left out is simple - the CE regulations regarding conducted emissions have changed.
This has nothing to do with switched mode and nothing to do with RFI. A diode bridge feeding a capacitor generates harmonics into the low MHz range that get fed back into the mains. Those components were there to attenuate the harmonics. Now that Europe had abandoned the MW band the rules have changed and there is no longer any reason to stop this very common occurrence from happening.
Cynical?
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Location: Sydney, NSW
Member since 28 January 2011
Member #: 823
Postcount: 6761
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This has nothing to do with switched mode and nothing to do with RFI.
Huh? The harmonics from this PSU were wiping out 6 metre comms for miles. That's RFI in my book.
there is no longer any reason to stop this very common occurrence from happening.
See above.
Cynical?
You can drop the sarcasm.
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Location: Belrose, NSW
Member since 31 December 2015
Member #: 1844
Postcount: 2477
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Actually from my experience it's doubtful if the absence of the line filter would affect EMI in the VHF region, more likely it's a badly-designed or absent snubber on the flyback switch. Or possibly just an omitted ferrite bead.
Snubbers are probably the main cause of EMI in the VHF region in flyback power converters. To work properly they need to be critically tuned to match the transformer. What often happens is the transformer design changes in production but the snubber doesn't.
I wasn't being sarcastic, I was suggesting that leaving the line filter out because you could get away with it was a cynical exercise.
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Location: Toongabbie, NSW
Member since 19 November 2015
Member #: 1828
Postcount: 1313
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Looks like a typical Asian "take a photograph of it " clone copy of something that was actually designed right in the first place by a UL spec buisness.
We had Asian suppliers who could take a photo and send you a sample in 4 weeks.
Anything you like. Cheaper.
They would just leave out parts not required to make it work.
I had samples of product for testing that included an original device's poor design or mistakes exactly copied!
How many you want, what colour?
No ploblem, we send more!
Fred.
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Location: Hill Top, NSW
Member since 18 September 2015
Member #: 1801
Postcount: 2078
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I'm surprised they didn't link out the fuse, and remove that greenish thing next to it.
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Location: Belrose, NSW
Member since 31 December 2015
Member #: 1844
Postcount: 2477
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Yes my thoughts also.
Re the filter removal, there is a legitimate case for its removal if slow diodes are used in the bridge, allowing you to get the conducted emissions down below the curve.
There is also a "cheat test", to do the conducted emissions test with no load on the P/S.
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Location: Toongabbie, NSW
Member since 19 November 2015
Member #: 1828
Postcount: 1313
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Hey, Ian, we had suppliers who thought that any testing required was met by putting the appropriate logo on the product!!
C tick? "No ploblem!"
UL, "No ploblem!"
Emission standards ?, "No ploblem, give us the numbers and we put on for you!"
Certification papers? "We send", they never did or sent something meant for something else or downloaded from some other suppliers web site!
I used to just sob quietly and go away.
Purchasing could never see any problem, if the paper work is filled in correctly with the correct numbers what is the problem?
Bloody engineers, always getting in the way of a good deal.
Fred.
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Location: Oradell, US
Member since 2 April 2010
Member #: 643
Postcount: 831
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I've used the circuits of the missing parts as powerline/mains RFI filters on table/mantel radios.
RFI filter mod for radios
I usually take dead power supplies and cut the portion of its circuit board that houses these parts, to use as a module inside the radios.
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Location: Melbourne, VIC
Member since 11 July 2012
Member #: 1179
Postcount: 56
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GTC,
Was the smps sold as a pcb assembly for installation in to OEM type equipment, or as a standalone item of equipment in a shielded enclosure again for installation in to OEM equipment, or as a standalone item of equipment that could be used in a domestic environment ?
How were you using it such that it degraded VHF comms?
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Location: Sydney, NSW
Member since 28 January 2011
Member #: 823
Postcount: 6761
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Trobbins: that PSU, sourced from Maplin, was in a home-built PC put together by a young guy in London. He was blissfully unaware that his PC was wiping out comms on 6 metres until he was door knocked by local hams who'd had enough and used direction finding techniques to locate him. Fortunately, when the owner was shown what effect his PC was having on radio communications, and it was pointed out that the source was his PSU (photographed), he agreed to replace it with a higher quality PSU and the problem went away.
The Maplin PSU was managing to generate harmonics that affected 6 metres. It was possibly affecting other bands as well, but it's the 6 metre users who were galvanised into action.
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Location: Melbourne, VIC
Member since 11 July 2012
Member #: 1179
Postcount: 56
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Ahh, so by home built, does that mean it was totally up to the buyer to correctly deploy the smps in such a way that EMC from the final 'product' was compliant to amy and all standards?
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Location: Sydney, NSW
Member since 28 January 2011
Member #: 823
Postcount: 6761
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My understanding is that it's the power supply manufacturer's responsibility to comply with EMC requirements. It would have been interesting to see what, if any, certifications were claimed by the manufacturer in that case. Clearly the filter components had been deliberately omitted.
As for end users, they may or may not accede to requests to cease and desist using noisy gear. It usually depends on how they are approached. Diplomacy usually wins the day.
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