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 Valves are coming back
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 Return to top of page · Post #: 1 · Written at 8:45:44 AM on 15 April 2012.
Doug Shaw's Gravatar
 Location: Birkdale, QLD
 Member since 16 February 2012
 Member #: 1089
 Postcount: 36

Our local paper Courier Mail has a supplement each Wednesday - Switched On - with the back page usually reserved for latest gadgets. Last week's April 11 had an article on a Samsung 7.3 Blu-ray 3D home theatre system E6750W.
I quote "Samsung's latest home-theatre system ... includes one distinctly analogue component that should impress audiophiles: valves".
And later "The addition of valves seemed to add more detail to the sound, revealing information digital processing might have obscured".
There you go Brad, the fightback begins.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 2 · Written at 11:49:14 AM on 16 April 2012.
Wa2ise's avatar
 Location: Oradell, US
 Member since 2 April 2010
 Member #: 643
 Postcount: 830

The guys over at Audio Karma are talking about it now. No real info just yet. Thread there


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 3 · Written at 5:00:34 PM on 16 April 2012.
STC830's Gravatar
 Location: NSW
 Member since 10 June 2010
 Member #: 681
 Postcount: 1256

Silicon Chip magazine has described how a valve preamplifier can be used in a hifi system (Feb 2004). The preamp used is described in November 2003 and uses a 12AX7.

In another article which I can't find they described an amp based on subminiature valves that needed only something like 15V high tension, whereas the 12AX7 uses 160V, and so would be more suitable for most solid state amps. These valves are evidently even built into microphones.

Whether these subminiature valves have the right characteristics to produce "valve sound" wasn't discussed from what I remember.

A fascinating early use of subminiature valves, apart from hearing aids, was in antiaircraft shell proximity fuses which allowed V1 flying bombs to be shot down without actually having to hit them.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 4 · Written at 5:14:06 PM on 16 April 2012.
Brad's avatar
 Administrator
 Location: Naremburn, NSW
 Member since 15 November 2005
 Member #: 1
 Postcount: 7307

There was a debate in SC about two years ago with people in a catfight over whether the magazine should develop and describe a valve power amplifier - something along the lines of the early Playmaster series though with the benefits of modern expectations such as volume, balance, fade, bass and treble controls.

Whilst the idea was popular it was amazing how many readers shot the idea down with the mentality that the magazine belonged to a fraternity that only believes in semiconductors. Some of that group also complained about the ongoing Vintage Radio column which is also disappointing.

I have to say here and now that one of the chief reasons I buy SC and also EA back before that publication went broke was because of the commitment of both magazines to a vintage radio column. It's also ironic that EA folded only when they radically changed their format from a technical publication with many historical features to a showcase and product review publication.

Those that heap scorn on valves are the same ones that still drive cars powered by internal combustion engines, a technology that has been around for more than 150 years. I reckon it is time they got with the strength. Valves have a future in many ways.

SC = Silicon Chip
EA = Electronics Australia, until it's demise the world's second oldest electronics magazine.


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A valve a day keeps the transistor away...

 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 5 · Written at 6:25:21 PM on 16 April 2012.
STC830's Gravatar
 Location: NSW
 Member since 10 June 2010
 Member #: 681
 Postcount: 1256

Hear-hear regards EA. Can remember standing in the newsagent looking at the first of the product review editions and thinking, they're finished, and so they were as you describe. A great pity when you look at the magnificent 50th anniversary edition in 1989 of 250 odd pages, with 1939 edition reproduction supplement.

I think they lost site of the fact that it was an enthusiasts' magazine for Aussie boys in their sheds looking to fix something,or make something, or just understand how it works, and keep up with developments. This philosophy went from EA to Silicon Chip.

In the '80s I built EAs Playmaster 100W per channel stereo amp which is still giving sterling service. It was rolled out for a 16th birthday party recently and the kids were lined up with their MP3 players to deafen the neighbourhood with their favourite downloads.

One of the kids wanted to know if it was a valve amp because his father has one. This has led me to looking into incorporating a valve stage, and the sub-miniature valves were attractive because they could have been run from one of the auxiliary power supplies with a bigger heat sink. But because I couldn't find anything about the type of sound they produce, didn't go ahead.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 6 · Written at 6:38:56 PM on 16 April 2012.
GTC's avatar
 GTC
 Location: Sydney, NSW
 Member since 28 January 2011
 Member #: 823
 Postcount: 6689

High-end audio shops have had valve amps in their range almost continuously.

I can't recall a time when this guy didn't have at least one on his shelves. He stocked McIntosh valve gear for many years. Here's his current offering:

http://lenwallisaudio.com/products/amplifiers/pre-amplifier/prologue-premium.

http://lenwallisaudio.com/products/amplifiers/power-amplifier/prologue-premium-stereo.

And, of course, many in the guitar fraternity are still into valve amps.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 7 · Written at 6:55:32 PM on 16 April 2012.
GTC's avatar
 GTC
 Location: Sydney, NSW
 Member since 28 January 2011
 Member #: 823
 Postcount: 6689

EA died when the new publisher rolled Jim Rowe.

The bit of last valve gear that I built from scratch was the Playmaster 40 watt guitar amp. I put it together for a classmate in 1969. He used it for ages until he could afford a Marshall.

In the 70's, when 2N3055s ruled, the Playmaster 128 with 127 pre-amp and Magnavox 8-30 speakers was the DIY gear to go with, although the op-amp in the 127 was noisy and the 3TC tweeters would catch fire easily.

Then along came the Tiger series amps from the USA.

As it happens, I'm in the process of building a new valve device, which uses 10 tubes over two chassis. Finding and buying parts for it has been a bit of a challenge. Thankfully, there are still places in the USA catering to the market, albeit often via surplus. Also thankfully, the greenback has stayed weak.

Three brand new hulking Hammond transformers arrived via FedEx today (Well, two trannies and one big choke).


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 8 · Written at 7:13:50 PM on 16 April 2012.
Airzone's Gravatar
 Location: Maclean, NSW
 Member since 30 May 2008
 Member #: 291
 Postcount: 341

All my mates use valve amps that play in bands.
I have just acquired a Vedette Amp, this Amp was owned by Angus Young of AC-DC in their early days.

I would think playing compressed MP3 music in a valve amp system would produce nothing more than it does now.
Nothing like a 78 0r 33 rpm record producing the actual wave form as recorded, yes plus some noise granted.

Out of interest:
The Vedette was made by ZJM Products. ZJM were the initials of the proprietor, Zoltan Julian Mielnik, who was known by his middle name. Julian was Polish (formerly a Polish Army intelligence officer), who came to Australia after a stint in a POW camp in Siberia in WW2. He operated a small music shop (ZJM Music) in Oxford St, Bondi Junction, and the amps built there were sold as 'Vedette' or 'ZJM' amplifiers.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 9 · Written at 2:11:23 PM on 17 April 2012.
STC830's Gravatar
 Location: NSW
 Member since 10 June 2010
 Member #: 681
 Postcount: 1256

"In another article which I can't find they described an amp based on subminiature valves .........."

For those interested details of this sub-miniature valve amp is at this link:

http://secure.oatleyelectronics.com//product_info.php?cPath=100_104&products_id=922&osCsid=a16a6ca09aa0ffae5ffc7c100396beea.

and another here:

http://secure.oatleyelectronics.com//product_info.php?cPath=100_104&products_id=885&osCsid=a16a6ca09aa0ffae5ffc7c100396beea

While it does say "tube sound" I was hoping to find something more objective than this before going to the trouble of installing it, so didn't go ahead.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 10 · Written at 5:57:29 PM on 17 April 2012.
Larry's Gravatar
 Location: Mildura, VIC
 Member since 5 May 2011
 Member #: 896
 Postcount: 108

Shuguang of China makes alot of common valves, I don't know if theyr'e as good today as the Authentic Valves are, they even still make Transmitting Valves!, I like the Authentic Aussie made valves the best, as we did make some Unique ones that weren't made anywhere else.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 11 · Written at 8:26:47 PM on 17 April 2012.
Brad's avatar
 Administrator
 Location: Naremburn, NSW
 Member since 15 November 2005
 Member #: 1
 Postcount: 7307

I know little about modern transmitting equipment aside from the most-advertised things like their location and power rating.

Most major UHF television transmitters are now rated at 1.2MW. I am not sure of whether they operate with valves or semiconductors though.


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A valve a day keeps the transistor away...

 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 12 · Written at 5:55:34 AM on 18 April 2012.
Wa2ise's avatar
 Location: Oradell, US
 Member since 2 April 2010
 Member #: 643
 Postcount: 830

A cathode follower line buffer is easy to build and gives you that "tube sound", which I think is a small dose of 2nd harmionic (like 45dB down) which sounds pleasing to the ear. See this diagram and distortiom plot for a simple circuit schematic.
here is a low current power supply I rigged up to make the B+ using some caps and a bridge rectifier:

and this is another buffer I put into an FM tuner (reason for the 3K3 resistor and 3300pF cap, FM deemphasis, remove for other audio work), using a low mu tube somewhat similar to a 12AU7. I used a "plate" transformer to generate the B+ for this one.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 13 · Written at 3:52:42 PM on 18 April 2012.
STC830's Gravatar
 Location: NSW
 Member since 10 June 2010
 Member #: 681
 Postcount: 1256

Thanks Wa2ise, this is the sort of info that I was looking for for the 6418 (pentode) tube mentioned in

http://secure.oatleyelectronics.com//product_info.php?cPath=100_104&products_id=922&osCsid=a16a6ca09aa0ffae5ffc7c100396beea.

I have been trying to keep high B+ out of my Electronics Australia Playmaster 100/100 amp because the function switching is done by CMOS chips. A couple of these have blown, along with transistors in the speaker protection circuit when the main power switch expired with a bang (twice!) sending a spike through the amp. To try & prevent this happening again have used a 30A power switch to prevent that failing again and shielded the leads going to it so they can't radiate RF if it does fail. So I am wary of using high B+ in case there is a failure which cooks the CMOS somehow - a lot of stuffing around to fix. The main power rails work at 60V so I want to stay below that at least, and would prefer the 6418 with its 15V B+ so the existing auxiliary power supply can be used.

But will probably go for anything below B+ 60V if I can get the data.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 14 · Written at 12:35:20 AM on 21 April 2012.
Steve's Gravatar
 Location: Donald, VIC
 Member since 7 January 2006
 Member #: 13
 Postcount: 265

Valves are back but they ever really leave us or did they just go into hibernation for awhile ? on one of my trips to the Soviet Union I visited the Svetlana valve works in St Petersburg - where I was shown through the production works !

To my surprise it was all top quality??? No--- there was no delivery wagon that looked like cabbage carts)) with little old ladies tossing valves into cane baskets no, it was very modern, I was very surprised !

I thought to myself I don't know what the quality is going to be like, being in Ivan's land, things are a bit dodgy !

But what I seen was American foremen controlling the quality ---- this was 2005 believe me, it was right up to scratch !

Speaking with the yank in charge I said hm ''OK good show keep up the good work ''il be back in 6 months I don't want to hear of any shonky valves ok ""!!!!

Slovek factory in the old republic I called in, and pulled a surprise visit on that crowd too JJ valve works, I was not sure whom to ask for in the quality control)))) so I just said ''take me to your leader'' lol

They did--- and in reality they have it down pat! valves are back & hear to stay mostly in audio I suppose - ive never been an audio man, it truly don't light my fire !

Give me a type 42 and a vintage radio any day --- but anyway ! valves are alive and well in Europe - thats for sure !


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Steve.

 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 15 · Written at 9:22:05 AM on 21 April 2012.
Doug Shaw's Gravatar
 Location: Birkdale, QLD
 Member since 16 February 2012
 Member #: 1089
 Postcount: 36

I've tried getting some info from Samsung on what type of valves they have in the E6750W, and what the replacement cost might be. Talk about a run around. No one seems to know what I'm asking about. Same old story - sell, sell, sell, and forget about service.


 
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