Welcome to Australia's only Vintage Radio and Television discussion forums. You are not logged in. Please log in below, apply for an account or retrieve your password.
Australian Vintage Radio Forums
  Home  ·  About Us  ·  Discussion Forums  ·  Glossary  ·  Outside Links  ·  Policies  ·  Services Directory  ·  Safety Warnings  ·  Tutorials

General Discussion

Forum home - Go back to General discussion

 Runaway Syd/Melb house prices
« Back · 1 · Next »
 Return to top of page · Post #: 1 · Written at 10:31:00 PM on 8 August 2021.
NewVista's avatar
 Location: MilwWI, US
 Member since 10 May 2013
 Member #: 1340
 Postcount: 798

With humble bungalows going for "a-buck-and-a-half" ($1,500,000) have rents risen commensurately?


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 2 · Written at 12:46:56 AM on 9 August 2021.
GTC's avatar
 GTC
 Location: Sydney, NSW
 Member since 28 January 2011
 Member #: 823
 Postcount: 6237

 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 3 · Written at 2:39:03 AM on 9 August 2021.
NewVista's avatar
 Location: MilwWI, US
 Member since 10 May 2013
 Member #: 1340
 Postcount: 798

One place prices are 'Runaway' is Runaway Bay. I remember when the land sharks were touting the budget scrubland in the early 70's: "Who'd be interested in the rough north end of the Gold Coast, there's not even any surf there" I thought.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 4 · Written at 9:49:58 AM on 9 August 2021.
Brad's avatar
 Administrator
 Location: Greenwich, NSW
 Member since 15 November 2005
 Member #: 1
 Postcount: 6625

Back in the 70's, renting a typical Californian Bungalow (Sydney has lots of them, both pre and post-war) was about $15.00 a week. I pay $800.00 a week for the one I am in at the moment. It's not cheap by any means but compared to what others are paying for a similar house, it probably is cheap.


‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾
A valve a day keeps the transistor away...

 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 5 · Written at 1:21:41 PM on 9 August 2021.
NewVista's avatar
 Location: MilwWI, US
 Member since 10 May 2013
 Member #: 1340
 Postcount: 798

https://www.sydneymovingguide.com/the-cost-of-living-in-sydney/

I see Camden in far-SW-Syd is a good comparative rent bargain. Which raises a puzzling issue: In places where house prices are stratospheric (Sydney, San Francisco..) rents do not track linearly higher, revealing a disconnect with valuation reality. This is because wages are weak, most Sydney jobs being service-sector jobs. This tells me that pure 'investors' in Syd houses would be getting zero-to-negative return on their investment, discounting rising prices. They are not alone, I read German Govt bond holders are losing 2% PA when inflation is taken into account, but no-one is complaining!


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 6 · Written at 5:22:32 PM on 9 August 2021.
GTC's avatar
 GTC
 Location: Sydney, NSW
 Member since 28 January 2011
 Member #: 823
 Postcount: 6237

This tells me that pure 'investors' in Syd houses would be getting zero-to-negative return on their investment, discounting rising prices.

Yep: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_gearing


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 7 · Written at 2:26:49 PM on 10 August 2021.
NewVista's avatar
 Location: MilwWI, US
 Member since 10 May 2013
 Member #: 1340
 Postcount: 798

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_gearing

Have only seen the term "negative gearing" in Australian press where apparently it's a hot potato as well as a political football. Had not sought further understanding of the concept but wiki page explains it to connote what I expected it to be.

For clarity of analysis in the case of the Australian housing mania, let's strip off the rental and taxation components and focus on the core nature of the gambit: What we have in essence is a leveraged bet in a hot market or "buying on the Margin" as it was termed in the late-1920s Wall Street frenzy. The use of borrowed money amplifying the boom, then the crash, taking the banks down with it.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 8 · Written at 7:05:58 PM on 10 August 2021.
Brad's avatar
 Administrator
 Location: Greenwich, NSW
 Member since 15 November 2005
 Member #: 1
 Postcount: 6625

In basic terms, mum-n-dad property investors can write off losses from an investment property on their personal income tax. The Left side of politics has tried to abolish negative gearing before and it meant certain doom for Bob Hawke and Paul Keating back in the early 1990s so they brought it back in time for an election. Labor has since campaigned for its abolition without success - understandable since whilst in opposition they have nothing to lose from such a move.

At the end of the day, property investment is considered a small business activity so if the joint needs painting, the insurance needs paying or the tenant bails after causing damage and owing thousands in rent, the owner should be entitled to claim those expenses.


‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾
A valve a day keeps the transistor away...

 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 9 · Written at 1:55:05 AM on 11 August 2021.
GTC's avatar
 GTC
 Location: Sydney, NSW
 Member since 28 January 2011
 Member #: 823
 Postcount: 6237

In the case of the Wall St Crash, purchase of shares on margin was being spruiked by commission men and talked up by public figures at every opportunity. The media was full of it. Hence the unsustainable boom in share prices built purely on speculation, not company performance.

Negative gearing real estate is a well-established practice in Oz. It is mentioned in every book on investing in real estate, but it is not flogged to the masses at every opportunity. The banks understand it, and are generally fine with it under normal circumstances.

Investment properties funded that way contribute to the great bulk of rental properties. As Brad mentioned, when Labor tried to kill off negative gearing it backfired on them spectacularly when investors dumped their properties and the rental market as good as disappeared overnight.

When it comes to tax, I'm with the late Kerry Packer: "I pay what I'm required to pay, not a penny more, not a penny less. If anybody in this country doesn't minimise their tax, they want their heads read because, as a Government, I can tell you you're not spending it that well that we should be donating extra."

Case in point:
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/nsw-parliament-spends-63000-on-a-door/video/7d053fad5ee68a82af73c2e82a78987b


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 10 · Written at 12:09:56 AM on 12 August 2021.
NewVista's avatar
 Location: MilwWI, US
 Member since 10 May 2013
 Member #: 1340
 Postcount: 798

'Wall St Crash, purchase of shares on margin'

You knew a crash was coming when your shoe-shine boy was bragging about owning "Radio" [RCA] the hot Tech stock of the day.

Having looked at rents in Camden Syd, am now looking at Camden New Jersey. once home to massive RCA campus. Gone are the high paying manufacturing jobs but you can now live in its main building complete with restored Nipper logo stained glass! Rents start at a reasonable $600pw and it's 'on the water' - actually 500 ft from water Sad and not the ocean but a river Sad See livethevictor.com


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 11 · Written at 9:56:16 PM on 12 August 2021.
NewVista's avatar
 Location: MilwWI, US
 Member since 10 May 2013
 Member #: 1340
 Postcount: 798

Trivia: across the river from RCA was Philco, making Philadelphia a radio manufacturing nexus to rival Chicago (Zenith, Admiral..)


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 12 · Written at 6:56:43 AM on 23 August 2021.
Wa2ise's avatar
 Location: Oradell, US
 Member since 2 April 2010
 Member #: 643
 Postcount: 775

You don't want to live in Camden, NJ. It's one of the worst cities in the USA, high crime, poverty, and so on.

My house, in a good suburb of New York City, might fetch a half million American. 4 bedrooms, 2 baths, quarter acre of land. Electricity is expensive, about 18 cents a kilowatt hour.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 13 · Written at 8:30:13 PM on 23 August 2021.
Ian Robertson's Gravatar
 Location: Belrose, NSW
 Member since 31 December 2015
 Member #: 1844
 Postcount: 2018

That's about AU$750,000. Very affordable.

Here's a link to some recent sales in the Sydney suburb where I live. Crazy!

https://www.realestate.com.au/sold/property-house-in-belrose,+nsw+2085/list-1

The best rate for electricity I can find in my area is about AU$0.27, so that's about the same.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 14 · Written at 10:47:39 PM on 23 August 2021.
Tallar Carl's avatar
 Location: Latham, ACT
 Member since 21 February 2015
 Member #: 1705
 Postcount: 1685

I jumped in at the right time here in Canberra. A house worth well over 800,000 here it basically doubled in value since 2013.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 15 · Written at 10:55:10 PM on 23 August 2021.
NewVista's avatar
 Location: MilwWI, US
 Member since 10 May 2013
 Member #: 1340
 Postcount: 798

Poor Camden NSW & Camden NJ, both too far from the ocean to get any respect Sad

For some reason, I always imagined Camden NJ - legendary home of RCA - as being on the coast?!
In reality, it's part of Philadelphia which appears to have gone to the dogs like once great Detroit & Chicago!


 
« Back · 1 · Next »
 You need to be a member to post comments on this forum.

Sign In

Username:
Password:
 Keep me logged in.
Do not tick box on a computer with public access.