I have become increasingly concerned over the way the “Wanted and for sale” forum has required intervention by our administrator, Brad, because of posts that are not always in keeping with what we would all like. Unfortunately, it has happened more than once.

I believe that this is due to the forum being used for commercial use, with members selling components for profit. I also believe that the intention of this forum is for members to obtain the odd article for a restoration, or to sell off an item that is surplus to requirements.

To rectify this position, I would like to propose a new forum, perhaps called “Classified Advertisements”. I envisage it having these properties:
It be used for items sold commercially, for profit. (I cannot accept that members sell their products at zero profit, out of the goodness of their hearts.)
Ads placed by a member could be edited, but no responses from other members. If someone wants to buy something, they respond directly to the seller.
It could include those listings presently in the “Services Directory” page.
The current “Wanted and for sale” forum remains for the one-off item as I referred to above.

I offer this suggestion as a way to make the site a nicer place to be. I must also say that the recent posts on capacitor qualities and performance are an excellent example of what could be, but possibly in “Tech Talk”. Given the subject started in “Wanted and for sale”, that cannot be helped.

Harold

IMO dealing appropriately with the perpetrator is the simplest solution.

I feel the "wanted" part is the main interest for member info and parts for restoration.
The "for sale" bit probably should remain but be jumped on by the moderators as soon as it starts looking commercial.
JJ

Being a moderator on the American forum, there is provision for selling, however, stepping out of line as seen here, has ramifications as any moderator can take the post down, along with the perpetrator: Who just might get banned for a period, or indefinitely and that happens.

Dealing with the perpetrator is the best way of going about it.When some one deliberately gets abusive then they should be dealt with and not the person whose post has been Hi Jacked. Personal attacks should be deleted and the attacker should be silenced or banned. I have had the displeasure of doing this in my Facebook group but it has had the effect of making the group a much better and happier place to be.

As long as the parts for sale are to do with vintage radio or television then the current formula is ok..
I sell my gear as a extension of my hobby which adds to the interest and profit is very little ,but still it is enough to subsidize my hobby.
That being said I am happy with both proposals

.
a lot has been sacrificed, but not the power source

First a blue blank across 6x5
Then the idea of dumping the radio somewhere
Then the guy who did the wiring rejig
Plus the blizzard of blather

hivemind?

nah

Methinks post #6 is in the wrong section.

I apologise for the late response as I am still on holidays for another week.

I think Harold's suggestion has some merit. Whilst it has not been apparent, due to my preference to keep my intentions fairly low key, I've been giving thought to the future of the Wanted and For Sale forum for some time - a few years, in fact. This has largely been due to many of the posts placed there not meeting the requirements for that forum. Abuse has been a recent issue but seldom seen. More commonly, goods are offered for sale with no price - a clear breach of the AUP.

I realise that most who sign up to sites (I am also guilty of this) do not read the rules and regs from the outset simply because in most cases they are overly lengthy an at times overbearing. For the same reason, I've always been one who prefers not to enforce the rules and regs here unless it is really needed, so when there is a breach it is partly my fault.

A few possibilities could be on the cards and comment on any or all is welcome.

1. Remove the ability to post ads for commercial gain.
2. Adopt a zero tolerance policy for an off-topic or abusive reply to an ad.
3. Remove the ability to reply in any thread in the Wanted and For Sale forum. (Sellers would have to post alternate contact details)
4. Adopt a zero-tolerance policy for ads that breach the AUP (simply delete the offending ad without warning)
5. Have a separate forum for commercial sales.
6. Make changes to the submission form for the Wanted and For Sale forum so that certain content, such as prices and surcharges must be included, using force. (The post cannot physically be submitted without providing this information)
7. Scrapping Forum 3 and not replacing it with anything.

The last two points, I am reluctant to carry out, as I think it is pointless trying to either restrict a legitimate function that has served us well and is indeed one of the original three forums and in the case of point 5, continued development of the current software would not get carried over to a replacement platform as no forum vendor provides that level of customisation.

2. Adopt a zero tolerance policy for an off-topic or abusive reply to an ad.

This. Just ban anyone in that category. This site has run for years without such problems because the vast majority of members know how to behave like adults. I'm a member of numerous forums, here and overseas, and none would tolerate abusive posts without severe sanctions.

Hi Brad,

Another forum I am a member of uses a combination of 2 and 4. It has a couple of dedicated moderators for this.
You've gone to the effort to lay down ground rules. To be honest, without enforcement they are pretty meaningless. It's unfortunately a harsh reality.

They also don't allow setting the For Sale section until you've been a member for at least 3 months, this prevents people joining just for that purpose. Maybe something similar could be enacted here, but approval to that forum is granted say after a post in new member introductions.

Edit- and this other place also has a permanent ban for repeat offenders.

Brad I have to say this.
This Forum is a immense credit to you. It is a very good and interactive site that I have garnished total enjoyment from. It can live without certain characters in it!
My experience in running the Facebook group is that you really need to mute or delete characters that cause you grief because in reality they are causing grief to the rest of the members. Since deleting a certain character, my Facebook group grew at a spectacular rate ( from 800 to over 1100 in 3 months ).


I have to say that I am in full support of all of the above proposals.

Carl,

One thing that I've always managed to do well, in my opinion, is remain neutral and not take sides. There's two sides to all stories and I am not in a position to judge who is right and who isn't. Nor is it my role to make judgements even if I did have all the evidence laid before me. I also need to make clear that the very isolated cases where personalities have clashed here is not my only worry as a site administrator.

To be honest, I'd rather spend the little spare time I have these days on setting up the new server for the new forums, which will take even longer to set up now that it has been made clear by several that all content should be on one platform. Whilst it is a good idea, it adds to the already impossible task.

I would rather everyone just behave here and any fights that do need to happen, happen somewhere else. This site has survived for more than 15 years without permanent moderation staff and that is how I'd like it to continue.

I should add that your last sentence is just encouraging the gentleman you speak of to make another hostile comment in reply. This is something I do not need at the moment. The quicker that issue is put to rest the better it will be for everyone.

I’ve only been a member on this forum for a very short time on the scheme of things & my input has been limited to a handful of times. In saying that I have actually enjoyed reading this site without being a member for the best part of a decade or more too. Some of the people I have met personally including Brad with whom I’ve had nothing but 100% positive dealings with also for the best part of a decade.
This site has always been very friendly. I am also a member on many groups & forums where mostly I enjoy reading the posts & looking at the pictures. As groups grow bigger it is sadly a reality that personalities will clash. I find this most often the case in the groups and forums where items are available for sale or wanted. To give you a generalised example...scenario 1...a person will post something for sale and various members will critique about why they think it is worth or not worth that amount of money and an argument usually follows. Scenario 2...where an item is posted for sale that is a bargain or just very sharply priced, usually the first person that makes contact showing interest is then by other members in the comments that follow labelled as dodgy that has taken advantage of the seller whilst saying what they should have gotten for the item & an argument follows. Scenario 3... A member places a request for an item they want to buy. Various members respond all trying to say why theirs is the better one & an argument follows.
So far I’ve only seen 3 ways this is dealt with.
1...for sale & wanted ads can not be commented on. They show only the details such as a description or picture, the price, the location & a phone number.
2...when a item is posted for sale the first person that writes SOLD gets it. No one else can make any comment at all after the word SOLD is made, if they do they are immediately removed with zero tolerance. In the case of wanted ads a person can only reply with I can help you please call me on .....
3...leave comments open on all posts. On some groups arguing is common place & to be honest at times scary & disgusting.

Brad, I’m not sure how easy it is but is it possible for you to simply automatically remove the ability for users to comment on the current wanted & for sale thread. That way a person can simply say what they want or what they have & it’s then up to interested parties to make private contact that is not made public to any other members ?
I think that is where most of the problems originate as the other threads are nothing more than friendly chit chat

It should be easy enough to customise one or more forums to that level though, the problem will likely return when I get the chance to shift to a new forum system. It'll most likely use an off-the-shelf software which will mean customisation wont be possible. If these forums weren't playing up the way they sometimes do it'd definitely be worth doing.

I was once a member of a prospecting forum - not a bad place most of the time but when members didn't agree on things, neither did the moderators, so there ended up being two groups of people at each others throats. When the forums were passed by way of sale to an overseas buyer who wasn't into prospecting as a hobby, WWIII almost broke out.

We've been very lucky here and I never under-estimate that. Not to mention the fact that I also appreciate it.