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 Return to top of page · Post #: 16 · Written at 1:46:46 PM on 28 June 2018.
Ian Robertson's Gravatar
 Location: Belrose, NSW
 Member since 31 December 2015
 Member #: 1844
 Postcount: 2372

Yes but if you have a .01μF paper cap in parallel with a 33 ohm resistor to ground, would you bother changing it?

As in an AWA TV I was restoring.

I did, but I certainly needn't have! Only reason I did was I was looking for a very subtle, very long-term intermittent streaking in the video.
It wasn't that cap!! It turned out to be a ceramic feed-through cap in the tuner.

By the way, this TV had been partially submerged in water in a garage flood. Nearly all the paper caps behaved like batteries! After I removed them all and hooked them in series I got 10 volts out of them! (no load of course!)


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 17 · Written at 3:32:47 PM on 28 June 2018.
Johnny's avatar
 Location: Hobart, TAS
 Member since 31 July 2016
 Member #: 1959
 Postcount: 544

The only electros I have ever seen explode are those that were inadvertently replaced back to front.(generally by apprentices).
The only others that I can recall that failed just got very hot, and some emitted a little smoke.
Granted these in an non fused situation as in a vintage radio, left unattended could have melted a mains transformer.
But I can count these situations on one hand, and properly reformed electros even very old ones seem reliable.
Even a brand new cap can and do go faulty, so maybe we should be advocating adding fuses to both primary and secondary windings of the power transformer. As well as the mandatory earthed mains wiring.
As far as normal paper caps go, there are only usually three in a standard vintage radio that really should be changed.
I have not seen the need to replace all. Maybe the clean air and lack of humidity in Tasmania is not so detrimental to paper caps.
What I really oppose is the continued suggestions to newer members and inexperienced is to do a total recap immediately.
They should be guided through the whole process, ending up with a safe, reliable and legal repair.
Some of these debates remind me of the days when we as technicians used to hate backyarders.
Maybe those days and people are still here.
And yes, I have over 50 years of continuous experience also.
JJ


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 18 · Written at 8:09:52 AM on 29 June 2018.
Captgogo's Gravatar
 Location: Sydney, NSW
 Member since 22 May 2017
 Member #: 2114
 Postcount: 120

I have one that is similar, the case looks identical, it is in the pipeline for me to work on, mine has four knobs and an all states dial. It has has the paper label on the inside stating it is a model 77 and shows the valve line up as 6A8, EF50, 6G8, 6V6, 5Y3. I do not yet have a circuit diagram for this, but I have not yet really tried looking.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 19 · Written at 10:35:40 AM on 29 June 2018.
Marcc's avatar
 Location: Wangaratta, VIC
 Member since 21 February 2009
 Member #: 438
 Postcount: 5257

I have actually had to clean the powder coating out of sets & reported one a while back. That was turned on after sitting for decades & by a person I told not to do that. Would have loved to be a "fly on the wall" when that happened; The demise of the rectifier (#80) was also spectacular: Yes I was the Bunny that got to fix it.

The reason that the cap was put across the resistor was either to bypass Audio or RF & that is quite common on cathodes. Once a paper starts leaking it only gets worse and they do get get to go short. That impinges on reliability and could seriously affect how it runs.

One does not leave parts like wax paper caps in, that are known to be unstable, unreliable, leak and are liable to seriously affect performance. That's not good for ones reputation, especially when the part is cheap & new ones don't leak.

As before I do commercially fix.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 20 · Written at 1:18:55 PM on 29 June 2018.
Johnny's avatar
 Location: Hobart, TAS
 Member since 31 July 2016
 Member #: 1959
 Postcount: 544

I agree with you Marc, but unfortunately recommending a complete recap to those with no or little experience is proving to be a disaster in itself. I have followed numerous posts by the obviously inexperienced and nearly all have had mixed results.
As soon as they ask for example "I have not got a 0.05 can I use a 0.047" its a dead giveaway.
I really do think that we as a group should be giving helpful advise, not scaremongery.
Then when they have got the repair diagnosed or even going, they should be advised to replace various parts that only experienced people can know, to make it safe, reliable and legal.(the theory text books certainly do not mention that some caps always fail).
Unfortunately we all know that most of these non experienced members are going to do all sorts of horrible things anyway, regardless what we say. And most times not admit it.
Sorry for the rants. Will refrain in future.
JJ


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 21 · Written at 3:41:19 PM on 29 June 2018.
Robbbert's avatar
 Location: Hill Top, NSW
 Member since 18 September 2015
 Member #: 1801
 Postcount: 2017

Meanwhile, Bignumbas has not returned.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 22 · Written at 4:30:58 PM on 30 June 2018.
Marcc's avatar
 Location: Wangaratta, VIC
 Member since 21 February 2009
 Member #: 438
 Postcount: 5257

Did I say check things: I managed to get at the Astor KM. Fascinating I cut the hot end of an electrolytic off to get room and it fell out of the set? Then I note the electrode has fallen off a chassis mount one. I did say check resistors as you go: Now why is the 6A8 grid 1 (oscillator grid) factory fitted with a 150K resistor from cathode to grid one (tests 170K) circuit & every one I have seen says 50K? Another built Friday before the holiday one perhaps.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 23 · Written at 10:12:34 PM on 30 June 2018.
Marcc's avatar
 Location: Wangaratta, VIC
 Member since 21 February 2009
 Member #: 438
 Postcount: 5257

One of the catch 22 situations, is that in over 90%, (and I have seen hundreds) it is rarely a valve that brings the set down, it someone who has monkeyed with it, or its every thing else. The KM is proving to be just one of those horror sets, that in no way is capable of being powered.

I should for this exercise run one of the insulation testers over the wax papers. So far with resistors one is a factory stuff up (noted) (don't know how it ran) every 500K, 60K, 30K, tested so far is on the bench way way out. I expected those on the 6V6 grid to be out of spec. and so they are: Rarely good.

This is why assessment is so important. I don't think replacing wax papers is actually scare mongering & the fixers on the American forum mostly tend to be like me (and I'm one of them). I base my directive on years of experience with wax paper caps and I would reiterate that NP caps should not have DC resistance and I do not back away from my statement that fault finding in sets with old wax paper & many oil filled types, is time wasting.

In the ideal world one should make an effort to understand basics on how the set works before attacking it (it is written). We all have different ideas; My methodology sees a radio fire up 95%+ of the time, leaving only tidy ups, as some parts like Mica caps do not manifest faulty as a lot of the time you don't bother with them due to the low percentile of failure.

My biggest issue at the moment will be stocks. Eight sets+ are going to take a heavy toll.


 
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