Welcome to Australia's only Vintage Radio and Television discussion forums. You are not logged in. Please log in below, apply for an account or retrieve your password.
Australian Vintage Radio Forums
  Home  ·  About Us  ·  Discussion Forums  ·  Glossary  ·  Outside Links  ·  Policies  ·  Services Directory  ·  Safety Warnings  ·  Tutorials

General Discussion

Forum home - Go back to General discussion

 Astor BPJ Mantel radio ... HELP?!?!?
« Back · 1 · 2 · Next »
 Return to top of page · Post #: 1 · Written at 10:04:23 PM on 28 August 2016.
JamieLee's Gravatar
 Location: Clare, SA
 Member since 27 March 2016
 Member #: 1894
 Postcount: 510

Hello, unfortunately I have just encountered my very first monolithic failure, attempting a re-cap of my Astor BPJ
I bought it on Ebay and it was a great performer, loud and clear on all stations without even needing to be connected to the long wire aerial I have for my other radio's.
When I first received it, I opened u the case and removed the chassis to discover very old paper capacitors and electrolytic's, even though the radio was strong and loud.
Last week I successfully re-capped a Kriesler 11-99 for my wife which now works better than ever!
So emboldened by my success and yesterday replacing troublesome caps in my Kriesler Beehive, which also now sounds great, today I attacked my Astor BPJ replacing all 11 paper caps and two electrolytics. The electro's were 24μF 400v respectively which I replaced with 22μF 450v types, One of these also had a paper capacitor .01μF in parallel, which I replaced with the correct value.
After replacing all of the old caps, some looking very dodgy, I plugged her in, powered up and nothing! After a while I realised I was picking up stations, but whisper quiet, I can just hear voices with with my ear against the speaker, so I am at a loss as to what I have done wrong? I am suspecting that I have done something wrong on the 6M5 valve, perhaps soldered the cap to the wrong pin?
Does anybody have a schematic or any suggestions as to where I may have erred, I am sure it is something simple as I am getting stations, just no amplification?
Thank you.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 2 · Written at 10:29:20 PM on 28 August 2016.
GTC's avatar
 GTC
 Location: Sydney, NSW
 Member since 28 January 2011
 Member #: 823
 Postcount: 6686

I have emailed you the schematic.

As for the problem, I'd first double check the polarity of the electros and the integrity of all solder joints.

Then the usual diagnosis steps kick in: Check power supply voltages; then work backwards from the speaker checking the audio path with a signal tracer. If power supply okay, and audio checks out then it must be an issue with the RF path.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 3 · Written at 10:35:21 PM on 28 August 2016.
Tallar Carl's avatar
 Location: Latham, ACT
 Member since 21 February 2015
 Member #: 1705
 Postcount: 2154

Schematic sent buddy. could be a dry joint as well. I have done plenty of those.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 4 · Written at 2:23:14 PM on 29 August 2016.
JamieLee's Gravatar
 Location: Clare, SA
 Member since 27 March 2016
 Member #: 1894
 Postcount: 510

Thank you very much, I'll be having another go at it after work, now looking at the schematic, I think I've accidentally soldered a .22μF cap to the wrong pin on the 6M5, I've put it on the same pin as the ceramic cap, but it's apparently supposed to go on the one next to it, clockwise to the right, I remember dinner was ready and I had a moment of doubt, which I dismissed, but yes so it seems! Anyway hopefully that is all..
Cheers!


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 5 · Written at 7:58:41 PM on 29 August 2016.
JamieLee's Gravatar
 Location: Clare, SA
 Member since 27 March 2016
 Member #: 1894
 Postcount: 510

Hmmn maybe not, I think I'll have to try and follow the schematic and relate it to the actual chassis and valve pins etc. and check everything is as it should be, I've been very careful using alligator clips as heat sinks on caps and resistors when soldering, so a dry joint is a possibility or maybe a dud cap? The faint volume of stations I'm getting seems to me the IF nd RF stages are doing their job but the amplifying is very mute, so I have a challenge ahead... Excuse my ignorance, is there a handy reference in terms of which valve pin is which whilst looking down at the socket from inside of the chassis? There are 9 pins on the valves yet many of these do not appear to be used? Any comments much appreciated!
Cheers.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 6 · Written at 8:18:53 PM on 29 August 2016.
Tallar Carl's avatar
 Location: Latham, ACT
 Member since 21 February 2015
 Member #: 1705
 Postcount: 2154

I had a similar issue with my HMV Little Nipper Super 5 which turned out to be a issue with the speaker transformer. I could get stations but very low volume. It turned out that the speaker transformer was open circuit. My teacher had never seen that before. I bought a 100 volt line transformer from Jaycar. Then I modified it for valve radios it's easy as.I will send you the instructions via email if you need it. It could be your output valve but unlikely.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 7 · Written at 10:33:33 PM on 29 August 2016.
GTC's avatar
 GTC
 Location: Sydney, NSW
 Member since 28 January 2011
 Member #: 823
 Postcount: 6686

which valve pin is which whilst looking down at the socket from inside of the chassis?

From underneath they number clockwise from the gap in the pins as follows:

http://www.dogstar.dantimax.dk/tubestuf/graphics/pinout.gif

There are 9 pins on the valves yet many of these do not appear to be used?

Not all valve types require all 9 pins to be used. As a rule, only multi-function valves (such as the 6LE8 double pentode) require use of all pins.

A a guide, the final digit in a valve's name indicates the number of functional electrodes or pins. Although the filament requires 2 pins, in functional terms the filament counts as 1 electrode, thus 1 pin.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 8 · Written at 11:05:58 PM on 29 August 2016.
JamieLee's Gravatar
 Location: Clare, SA
 Member since 27 March 2016
 Member #: 1894
 Postcount: 510

Thank you Carl and GTC I thought so after studying the schematic, in regard to which components are soldered where. The mistake I made is when soldering a .0022 cap from pin 7 to ground, I accidentally soldered pins 7 & 8 together and there was a very loud 50 hertz mains hum when I first powered up, which I realised straight away was not right, when I separated the pins (7 & 8) I found with my multi-meter that there exists a pd of 200 odd volts, pin 8 according to the schematic is unused. I'm wondering if I may have inadvertently burned out the valve?
Actually Carl, the speaker transformer crossed my mind as I had a small blob of solder fall off my soldering iron into the winding as the paper wrapping around said winding is brittle and flaky and I can see the copper coils, now with a tiny shiny speck of solder attached, I carefully attempted to remove it, but it was stuck, so I decided not to force it in case I damage it, however it may well already have done so, a possibility I had wondered about, so there is a distinct possibility, so funny you should say that as the saying goes, as how to modify a line transformer, yes please, I am definitely interested and will duly test the output transformer impedance/ continuity next time I have a go at it. It's basically my first disaster so to speak and I would like to solve it myself and learn, rather than send it off to an expert, unless I can find one not to far away whom I can quietly watch, thus learning how to tackle the problem professionally, obviously if I have quiet but distinct reception, It's fairly obvious whereabouts the problem most likely is...
Thank you for your help guys!


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 9 · Written at 11:48:32 PM on 29 August 2016.
GTC's avatar
 GTC
 Location: Sydney, NSW
 Member since 28 January 2011
 Member #: 823
 Postcount: 6686

I accidentally soldered pins 7 & 8 together

Pins 6, 8 and 9 of the 6M5 are documented as "internally connected" and are not to be used externally and, accordingly, the schematic shows no connection to any of those pins.

Pin 7 is the plate, so if you put plate voltage on pin 8 then the valve may well now be damaged.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 10 · Written at 12:00:06 AM on 30 August 2016.
JamieLee's Gravatar
 Location: Clare, SA
 Member since 27 March 2016
 Member #: 1894
 Postcount: 510

Yes I dare say, but I wont know until I source another and pop it in to see what happens, in the mean time I'll be testing the speaker transformer for continuity... All I can do for now, but it's a course of action at least which will get me closer to solving the puzzle at least!
Cheers. In hindsight, I'll be taking lots of close up photo's of valve sockets and connections before commencing work! Having such a reference would have prevented the mistake I made there...


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 11 · Written at 12:57:21 AM on 30 August 2016.
Marcc's avatar
 Location: Wangaratta, VIC
 Member since 21 February 2009
 Member #: 438
 Postcount: 5254

100V line transformers are not meant to have DC running through them. It would be useful to check the voltages on the valve elements. Most of the latter valve sockets are read clockwise looking at the wiring side. With 6M5 that is from the gap between pins 1&9.

In circuit quick check for an open speaker transformer is to crack a 9V battery across the primary. It should have been checked long before this. I also see no reference to checking resistors?

Stating the obvious, if it worked before you touched it, it would be odd for the speaker transformer to have failed. Them failing is not unusual, its quite common despite what you may have been told. With early Kriesler's for example I normally find around two in ten to not have a failed one & one tarred (not feathered) one in Little Nippers is little better.

Marc


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 12 · Written at 9:41:42 AM on 30 August 2016.
Clive Durham's Gravatar
 Location: Grenfell, NSW
 Member since 8 July 2015
 Member #: 1771
 Postcount: 212

I find that when cutting out a cap or resistor its helpful to leave a small amount of old connection there until you are going to connect the new component, then removing the old bit and replacing with the new one end at a time or just make a quick drawing.
When I get a radio I first take pics of it out from out side and then more as I remove the chassis. Then I systematically photograph it from end to end on top and underneath with closeup shots of everything. Sounds like a lot of time but not really.
As they say a picture is worth a thousand words, this is also very handy if you need to rewire the chassis where you have to remove multiple components at one time to access various areas.

You soon make a routine that suits you and it saves you a great deal of time and worry.
I keep a file on my PC which has all the photos and relevant info on the radio from start to finish.

I may well be preaching to the converted but I thought it might help to know what others do.


‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾
Clive

 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 13 · Written at 3:27:16 PM on 30 August 2016.
Tallar Carl's avatar
 Location: Latham, ACT
 Member since 21 February 2015
 Member #: 1705
 Postcount: 2154

I have sent you the instructions. Yes a 100 volt line transformer won't work with valve radios but once they are converted according to the HRSA instructions I have sent you then it will .


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 14 · Written at 5:33:29 PM on 30 August 2016.
JamieLee's Gravatar
 Location: Clare, SA
 Member since 27 March 2016
 Member #: 1894
 Postcount: 510

Thank you guys.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 15 · Written at 5:35:47 PM on 30 August 2016.
JamieLee's Gravatar
 Location: Clare, SA
 Member since 27 March 2016
 Member #: 1894
 Postcount: 510

I didn't check resistors in this case as the radio was a good loud and clear unit before I started repairing it... So I figured them to all be good?


 
« Back · 1 · 2 · Next »
 You need to be a member to post comments on this forum.

Sign In

Username:
Password:
 Keep me logged in.
Do not tick box on a computer with public access.