This thread is not necessarily about vintage radio as a hobby but Australia's stockpile of vintage radios - the beasts themselves.

In the May issue of Silicon Chip the Editor in Chief, Mr Leo Simpson, raised an important topic - one all collectors are ultimately faced with, except those of us who are immortal and that is what will happen to our radios when we kneel before our maker to face judgement.

Sadly, there have been times in the past when descendants of radio collectors have failed to come to terms with a buyer for the receivers that have been left behind only to see them lumped on council clean-up piles or taken to the tip and mercilessly smashed beyond repair. This largely brought on by the fact that there are far more white collar workers these days - it goes without saying (and this is not a criticism) that these people do not necessarily share the same appreciation for dozens of vintage radios as their blue collar seniors. At best, these people may pick one they like and ditch the rest.

Other collections have been sold off by estate administrators via the auction process and this does mean that other collectors will end up with the spoils which is a good thing. All the proceeds minus the auctioneer's cut goes to the estate to be distributed as per the deceased's will. Everyone benefits from this sort of thing.

Then there are the times when a collector's son, who is also a collector, inherits the collection and the inevitable supply of spares, magazines and other literature. The more regular members know of a few people in this category here on Vintage Radio & Television. This situation is also good because like the second scenario, the radios end up in the possession of someone who appreciates them and will look after them, or perhaps on-sell any models that he/she already has one of to another collector.

I suppose the most important thing for us to remember is that most of us will not know when our last breath will be drawn and as such there will be no time to spend on making sure our hard-won collections end up in the hands of someone who will guarantee their continued preservation.

Personally, I would make every effort to haunt in perpetuity the individual who caused any part of my collection to end up on the tip or in the hands of a hoarder (a person who mothballs radios and refuses to restore and display them). I would want each radio to end up in the hands of someone who is prepared to take some time to make sure my radios are on display, in good working order (where possible) and appreciated.

One other thing that would be of concern to many would be the future of this website should, God forbid, something happen to its humble owner. This is a subject discussed on the major vintage radio websites in the UK and USA, as those sites, like this one, are privately owned rather than being owned by vintage radio clubs.

Discussions can be found here:-
http://vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=84067.
http://antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=232585.

To be frank, I don't have an answer to this question despite thinking about it several times per year. I have no plans to shut the site down nor would I like to see the site fall into the hands of anyone or an organisation who would place limitations on membership or who would not spend the time to run the forums correctly. If I was ever put in the situation where I was no longer able to run Vintage Radio & Television my aim would be to pass the management of the site to someone who would be willing and able to run things without initiating any big changes or changes that would not meet with the approval of the vast majority of the current members.

To put everyone's mind at ease - I'm not going anywhere and all is well! It's just that this discussion has taken place in other places and is probably worth having here too.

Your thoughts if you will...

Well Brad, I and the many members here greatly appreciate the time and work you put into this forum.

I did inherit my father's collection, and this was by my choice and was discussed with him before he passed away. He was a collector from the age of 16 and passed at 83. I am now 61 and had these radios around while I was growing up. I can see the future where my two boys will not be interested in these, mainly because they are not in the kind of skill set required to understand their workings.
Yes, they may want one for posterity, but that would be it.
We see these radios still go at auction, but what is the average age of the buyers. Younger people often buy because the advert says "Vintage" not really knowing what they have only that it is old and must be worth something $$.
No use us trying to educate as life is too fast now with iPods, iPads, IPhones & MP3 players etc.
It would be interesting to know the ages of our forum members, then we can gauge where we are heading in the future. I would suggest that the youngest members here would be in their 40's- 50's, and I mean those that have electrical/electronics type back ground and understand the valve theory side of old radios. Maybe I am wrong.
Meanwhile, I enjoy the hobby following in my Dad's footsteps, his boots I could never fill, as he had a life time of knowledge, but I know he is looking over my shoulder.
Peter

As for the radios, HRSA members know that the Society will auction their estate for no charge, if that is their wish, but they need to catalogue their collection in good time so that their spouse is not left with an impossible task.

Where the website is concerned I have first hand experience of a big forum just suddenly going off the air and disappearing. The site in question (not associated with radio or electronics) was globally popular with sections in numerous languages other than English. Over the years it had accumulated a wealth of information from academics and specialist and all of that was lost overnight when the site owner did not renew his ISP contract.

The site owner inexplicably went incommunicado for some months and had most members worrying about his health. About a year after the site disappeared he reappeared in another place so we know he is still alive and kicking but to this day he refuses to communicate with anybody on the subject of the old forum.

Long time members, especially those on the moderation team, and those like yours truly who paid an annual membership as a site sponsor, considered this an act of bastardry because a few of them had previously asked him if he would give or sell the forum contents to them and he refused point blank.

So, this guy determined that he owned all of the content in all of the languages and to hell with everybody involved.

As a result of this experience, a group of five former senior members formed a co-operative and started a new website that has now taken the place of the dead one. Their co-operative agreement spells out that all share in the running costs and administration of the forum, no one individual owns the site and its content and thus no one individual can pull the plug on it at a whim. If a co-op member wishes to withdraw then he/she is replaced by a new one who agrees to uphold the co-op's constitution.

For me, that's the best arrangement I've come across to cater for the situation where a one-owner site is killed or dies because the owner either cannot cope with it (for whatever reason) or suddenly shuffles off this mortal coil.

There is another site -- a hugely comprehensive Wiki -- where the owner, now deceased, put aside money in his will for the ISP fees to be paid until the year 2020.

Well Brad, I and the many members here greatly appreciate the time and work you put into this forum.

I'll gladly second that.

Well Brad, I and the many members here greatly appreciate the time and work you put into this forum.

The fact that it has become a success in its own special way is the main incentive to keeping it going. The fact is, I enjoy hosting this site as much as the hobby it covers - it all seems to go together.

I've received a lot of good feedback over the years, along with suggestions for added features, and this also helps.

No use us trying to educate as life is too fast now with iPods, iPads, iPhones & MP3 players etc.

I agree. Something that is both niche and voluntary isn't something that can be forced on people. This is why finding someone prepared to make a commitment, or already making a commitment is important.

It would be interesting to know the ages of our forum members...

I know that at least three members here are in their late teens and are collectors as much as they can be at that age, given that they need assistance with picking up their 'finds'. I started collecting at the age of 17 and am 43 now. A couple of members here would be in their 70s going by estimates. You are probably right that the average age would be around the 45-55 mark.

There is a spot in the database to collect birthdays but I never enabled the feeding of this from the registration form because I never really saw a need to collect birthdays and would have probably only made it a voluntary inclusion anyway so I've no exact way of finding out the average age.

I mean those that have electrical/electronics type back ground and understand the valve theory side of old radios. Maybe I am wrong.

I think all formal tuition on valve technology died out in the 1970s so this is probably an accurate statement.

As for the radios, HRSA members know that the Society will auction their estate for no charge, if that is their wish, but they need to catalogue their collection in good time so that their spouse is not left with an impossible task.

Such a service would make life easier. I must admit that I am one who has fallen short in the record keeping department. Back a couple of decades when my collection amounted to something like 15 radios I did produce a catalogue with accompanying Polaroid (ahhh the days before digital photography!) photos for insurance purposes and so I had something to show to the police should I have fallen victim to a robbery.

With an expanding collection after those times and also moving across the state several times and across Sydney many more times since then it just became too hard despite the entry of MS Excel and digital photography into our lives. Yes, this is something I should revisit and probably something all collectors need to make sure they have sorted out.

So, this guy determined that he owned all of the content in all of the languages and to hell with everybody involved.

An unfortunate and unfair turn of events I think.

I think my priorities for passing on this site to ensure its survival would be to an individual who can demonstrate that they have the capacity either to self-host, as I do, or place the site on a commercial webhost at their own expense and be prepared to wear the cost of hosting a free website without the need to smother it in advertising campaigns would be necessary. This person would also need to understand several networking and programming technologies such as virtual webhosting on a Windows NT platform, programming in ASP (Classic and .NET), HTML and JavaScript and programming DNS servers. Scratch any one of these things and this site won't work, no matter where it is put. That said, once up and running this website mostly takes care of itself. It has a good anti-spam defence system which is why I do not get headaches from spam robots. One could justifiably describe the back-end system here as ancient but it has matured to the point where an automated spam attack is less likely here than on forums that use off-the-shelf software. The downside with one-off closed source software however is that the owner has to support it.

As a result of this experience, a group of five former senior members formed a co-operative and started a new website that has now taken the place of the dead one. Their co-operative agreement spells out that all share in the running costs and administration of the forum, no one individual owns the site and its content and thus no one individual can pull the plug on it at a whim.

This seems like a good way of doing things. It is a shame that the owner of the old site refuses to hand over the old database though. Even if he was right in claiming it as his property it isn't doing him any good being on a scratchy CD in a drawer somewhere.

My view here is that the information in the public area of this website is that the community owns the information jointly. This is emulated in the Terms of Use (currently being re-written) where it mentions that contributors retain copyright to their comments and any attachments. Unlike Facebook and similar sites, I do not claim a copyright or a licence to co-own such information.

There is another site -- a hugely comprehensive Wiki -- where the owner, now deceased, put aside money in his will for the ISP fees to be paid until the year 2020.

Another good outcome. It provides plenty of time for transitional measures to take place to allow the site to survive beyond that date.

I am a great advocate of cataloguing a collection, for both insurance and for the collections disposal at some time.
I have my collection in an Excel spreadsheet and will be happy to pass on the template for this to anyone interested.
It is pretty self explanatory but it helps if you have a little experience with spreadsheets for functions like sorting.
Brad, if there is some interest, could you host it, rather than emailing single copies?
Harold

Collection Catalogue Template (Excel).

Templates can be hosted here, yep. I can add a link to your post.

I often think that its So true and very sad, a case in point in the Welcome Wagon were some radios will go who knows where...cause there isn't a great avenue for being able to on sell them

I think if you really want to make sure your collection Goes somewhere useful in your eyes then make instructions NOW in your will to appoint them to someone who cares enough to either sell or give them individually or as a bulk lot

Lest wise leave instructions on Whom best to contact for dissemination to hopefully true collectors

Best I think is to probably leave at lest some of your cherished pieces to other collectors who you know would truly love them...sad part is their probably close to the same vintage as you and will be left with the same Delmar soon enough....

Museums are another point but well most of them have more goodies I suppose then they will ever show and so most stuff will end up in storage and even perhaps some that are not so collectable maybe sold off...

Sadly not many people appreciate the time and love that goes into a restoration

I dont collect cause I know Id end up with too many and sadly most of the junk I think I had... now someone here would have loved for restoration..more so TVs...sadly all gone...

Brad its people like you that take the time to put together Sites like this that help the Hobby and love of things like Antique radio Grow....the net is this regard is probably the best thing that happen to the world as it brings people together to share there passions of things they love like Old radios..

there is a lot of negatives to the net too but the positives far far out way them and I am thankful you started this site so I could find the help I need in restoring one old radio that has been in my family since the 40's..yes & where its was liable to end up is the scrap heap

So thank you Brad and you the people who have offered so much good advise

Just on age It seems a lot are older like me but good to know there's young blood with the passion.... for in that is the hope of the future of all that is restored..there love and passion will be your restoration's Saviour..and help keep them from the scrap heap

Just my 2 cent worth...I do love old things just no where to put them...

GTC I dont know of the site you talk of but I am sure I have run across it at some point

That sucks and I think that idea of a "co op" and the information being NOT OWNED by anyone is a good Idea

The true owners are actually those that posted their contribution by Copyright...thought thats getting into semantics and I think the idea of a forum like this is to spread knowledge and by that enrich everybody's life with something they love..be it radio TV etc

So I like that new style of forum and that is as it should be

To me also it should I think be the right too of any Co op member.... that if the original forum for what ever reason disappears or the co op dissolves... it should be further the right of them to re-host it as an intact closed entity free of charges (in other words as a non profit thing) else where so that the sometimes invaluable information survives to the benefit of all

Again, just my 2 Cents worth

I am glad we have forums

This person would also need to understand several networking and programming technologies such as virtual webhosting on a Windows NT platform, programming in ASP (Classic and .NET), HTML and JavaScript and programming DNS servers. Scratch any one of these things and this site won't work, no matter where it is put.

And, for me, therein lies the major difficulty of handing this particular site over to another person. As you know, the majority of web forums operate on packaged platforms such as vBulletin, with ongoing development done by the supplier.

Thank you for your ongoing efforts in maintaining this wonderful website and forum Brad! It is the greatest online asset for Australian television, radio and phono collectors.

It would be interesting to know the ages of our forum members...

I run the largest group for vintage television collectors on Facebook (with only 100 members!), and I know of around a dozen younger collectors, maybe even more, who all have a keen interest in vintage televisions and radios. A majority of the members are most likely in the 40+ age group as mentioned previously though.

One of the biggest problems I've noticed with the younger television/radio collectors is that they seem to have a hard time finding televisions and radios. Prices seem to be an issue at times too, with misinformed sellers who have the "It's old so it must be worth heaps!" mentality. Most antique shops I go to slap prices of $100 - $300 on even the most common tube radios, and I think that this may be a major factor detering younger collectors from joining the hobby.

Another noticeable problem with younger collectors is parental restrictions - parents severly limiting their collections or even trying to deter them from collecting anything in the first place. I don't suppose the negative image the media paints of collectors helps much either.

Chris

It is good to have this forum, particularly an Australian one.

200-550 metres sounds like some valuable real estate on the RF spectrum, I can't help but think it would diminish the hobby and whatever could potentially happen with AM radios in the future should AM broadcast be discontinued.
I hope the reasons given in some other threads (ie. good way to address the public in emergencies etc.) are enough to keep it about.

Fellow collectors, thought I'd way in with my take on "what to do with your collection when your dead", I went to an auction some time ago where the dad had died and left his family to sell his "memories" vintage cars auto memorbilia, some 150 valve radios whilst at the auction, it was great for buyers it was a sad time for the family who could not share the spoils with dad (an unrestored XU1 torana got $30k) but it got me thinking about what to do with my lot, while I'm still alive. I've decided to put a time frame on when to sell, when to quit the lot providing nothing happens in the meantime I have planned to host my own auction where in I'm around to watch (albeit sadly) the whole kit and kaboodle be sold my sons have said they support this and will assist to make it a productive day. The problem is when is the right time but when it comes I will keep say a set of 1 brand which could easily be disposed of when the time comes and then if I'm able, take this bloody cruise that I keep getting pested about, regards ron

an unrestored XU1 torana got $30k

If that was a genuine XU1 somebody got the bargain of the century.

I have planned to host my own auction where in I'm around to watch

Good plan.

And, for me, therein lies the major difficulty of handing this particular site over to another person. As you know, the majority of web forums operate on packaged platforms such as vBulletin, with ongoing development done by the supplier.

It does narrow down somewhat the shortlist of suitable people. The thing is, in theory, this site could be uploaded to a commercial webhost (which is where this site was when launched in 2003) and just left to run its own race after the domain name licence is transferred and DNS delegation sorted out. The latter taking only a few minutes on the domain registrar's site. If the owner is not a programmer (experienced or self-taught) it would simply mean that if a problem occurred they would require support of a professional or mate who can do this sort of thing.

Packages like vBulletin and some other commonly used forum software are available for those without that experience or who simply don't have the time and just want an operational forum. They cost money though and full unrestricted licences often cost more than the webhosting. Free software is available - I used Snitz years ago on another forum site I ran for about four years. Updates and support seemed to stop after a while though which annoyed me greatly because it meant that I would either have to scrap the forums as they were being heavily spammed, or write a rather complex script to convert the database to a new format used by a new choice of forum. In that case I chose the first option as the demographic for those forums was waning anyway.

In the case of this place the first option wouldn't even be considered. Vintage radio collection and restoration are clearly on the rise and still well supported by those who have been in the hobby for a long time.

Added a link to Harold's collection catalogue template today. It is in Excel 2007 format but should open in other versions as well.