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 Kriesler Stereophonic Help
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 Return to top of page · Post #: 1 · Written at 9:52:02 AM on 24 April 2017.
BradC's Gravatar
 Location: Brisbane, QLD
 Member since 24 April 2017
 Member #: 2096
 Postcount: 1

Hi,

I have spent the last couple of years admiring radiograms from afar and have finally decided to take the plunge.

I am not in any particular rush to buy something, but I have recently stumbled on a Kriesler Stereophonic on Gumtree that I think looks awesome as a piece of furniture and I wanted to ask a few questions.

My first question is about the construction of the cabinet itself, is it solid or a veneer? I have restored, repaired and built a fair bit of furniture so want to know how repairable it is as it looks like it's in a bit of a state.

Second question is related to the aesthetics as well, how easy or hard is it to refurbish or find and install replacements for the external components? Both the functional and the cosmetic?

My third question is about the internal repairs and the availability and affordability of parts? I have done some basic electrical work and have access to someone who has done a lot by phone, but I don't want to bite off more than I can chew or not be able to finish the thing properly.

I have posted a link for your thoughts, please feel free to point out anything I should be aware of or if you think the price is right Smile

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/everton-park/miscellaneous-goods/retro-vintage-radiogram/1145817991

Thanks!
Brad


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 2 · Written at 2:28:52 PM on 24 April 2017.
GTC's avatar
 GTC
 Location: Sydney, NSW
 Member since 28 January 2011
 Member #: 823
 Postcount: 3755

Welcome to V-R.

Kriesler radiograms of that size usually had pretty good sound. I'm guessing that model has an 8 inch speaker for each channel.

I may be wrong but that cabinet looks to be solid rather than plywood with veneer.

Regarding components, the seller says it's all working apart from the tone arm but it's not clear what's wrong with it. It may be a physically broken arm or it may need a replacement cartridge. Apart from that problem the turntable and changer mechanisms may also need attention.

Krielser tended to use Garrard turntables which can be found second hand, but not necessarily just when you need one.

The circuitry for such sets is not complicated for an experienced repairer, but as with all mains operated valve equipment there will be high (i.e. potentially lethal) voltages present under the chassis.

The valves will still be obtainable. Switches and knobs can be difficult to find.

As for the asking price, you need to factor the turntable problem into it. I don't think there'll be too many people wanting a non-working gramophone, so I expect the price can be negotiated down accordingly.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 3 · Written at 4:06:32 PM on 24 April 2017.
Tallar Carl's avatar
 Location: Latham, ACT
 Member since 21 February 2015
 Member #: 1705
 Postcount: 794

That looks like a great project. Does it have speaker cloth or is that metal gauze on the front. I am thinking it's cloth. Don't be too concerned at those stains on it . If it is cloth then all I do is take it off and put it through the washing machine . If that creates a problem then you would have had that problem no matter what. Some of the old material is quite resilient. As far as cosmetic fittings are concerned they are sometimes hard to find but 3d printing might be the answer.
I suggest you join your local HRSA and see if there are local members that might want to teach you. I have done that and found it very rewarding.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 4 · Written at 5:15:35 PM on 26 April 2017.
Ian Robertson's Gravatar
 Location: Belrose, NSW
 Member since 31 December 2015
 Member #: 1844
 Postcount: 478

Kriesler used Dawsons for cabinets in that era.

Cabinet is veneered ply. Trim is anodised aluminium.

I am booked to fix one of these this weekend in Canberra. Belongs to partner's son. They are becoming desirable!

Don't be tempted to plug it in, get it checked out first.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 5 · Written at 9:30:08 PM on 10 May 2017.
Viccadillac's Gravatar
 Location: Perth, WA
 Member since 7 May 2012
 Member #: 1140
 Postcount: 135

Hi Brad,

I have restored a few of those. Absolutely fantastic sounding radiogram. I fit a line / ipod connection as well. I replace the speaker cloth with this silver sparkle grille cloth used on amps

Supply me an email and I will send you some pictures .

Finished restored they sell from $1500 to $2500.


Cheers
Vic


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 6 · Written at 9:40:17 PM on 10 May 2017.
GTC's avatar
 GTC
 Location: Sydney, NSW
 Member since 28 January 2011
 Member #: 823
 Postcount: 3755

BradC has not been back as yet, but I note from the Gumtree ad that the radiogram has been sold.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 7 · Written at 9:46:13 PM on 10 May 2017.
Viccadillac's Gravatar
 Location: Perth, WA
 Member since 7 May 2012
 Member #: 1140
 Postcount: 135

Brad C has not been back as yet, but I note from the Gumtree ad that the radiogram has been sold.

GTC,

If it was anything like the one I had to do , he is in for a mission. But when done they are a beautiful piece. I was suprised at the loudness and frequency response of the last one I did. I find they all have blown O/P transformers though.

Vic


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 8 · Written at 10:19:41 PM on 10 May 2017.
GTC's avatar
 GTC
 Location: Sydney, NSW
 Member since 28 January 2011
 Member #: 823
 Postcount: 3755

I find they all have blown O/P transformers though.

Kriesler disease, unfortunately.

I wonder where they sourced their OP transformers, and I also wonder what the failure mode is?

Has anyone ever manged to bust one open to see if it's copper corrosion, or something else?


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 9 · Written at 2:22:48 PM on 11 May 2017.
Ian Robertson's Gravatar
 Location: Belrose, NSW
 Member since 31 December 2015
 Member #: 1844
 Postcount: 478

Well the 11-77 I'm working on at the moment was rescued from a skip in Canberra!

The chassis was no problem, it worked pretty much 100% as it came, despite the paper caps, when I brought it up with a dim bulb tester. All original valves too. I recapped it because it's the right thing to do. Original Ducon electros are fine, there is no hum. This chassis appeared to be completely untouched from when it was made in 1959 in Alice St. Newtown!

I note it was fitted (from new) with Rola K9 series speaker transformers (instead of Kriesler-made transformers) and these are still in good order.

The Garrard RC-122 Mk2 needed a complete strip down because the lubricants had either turned to gel or cement! The speed change shaft was completely siezed and its bush was rotating in the metal base. I still have a few minor issues to sort out with it (it pays to take lots of pictures if you strip one of these down, I wish I had taken more).

I was able to find a copy of the original manual on-line. It's good but it hasn't answered all my queries...

The original crystal cartridge was dead so I've fitted a modern ceramic replacement. No problems there.

When I get the changer fully sorted it's off to Canberra to fit it back in the cabinet.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 10 · Written at 2:33:12 PM on 11 May 2017.
Ian Robertson's Gravatar
 Location: Belrose, NSW
 Member since 31 December 2015
 Member #: 1844
 Postcount: 478

GTC - speaker transformer failure mechanism.

1. Paper insulation (usually not Ph neutral and usually hygroscopic).
2. When wires are terminated, the flux used is acidic, which doesn't help things.
3. The applied DC voltage causes electrolysis.
4. The copper eventually rots away.

That's why speaker transformer cores were often insulated from the chassis and connected to B+.
Or potted in bitumen, most such transformers you find today are still good.

The plastic bobbins and insulation now used just about eliminates this failure mode.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 11 · Written at 8:58:32 PM on 11 May 2017.
GTC's avatar
 GTC
 Location: Sydney, NSW
 Member since 28 January 2011
 Member #: 823
 Postcount: 3755

One, or all, of the above must have applied regularly to Kreisler's own transformers. There may be another manufacturer with as may failed ones at this vintage, but if so I can't recall it.

Machine operator sweat has been identified as one cause of the eventual failure of IFT coils.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 12 · Written at 9:14:24 PM on 11 May 2017.
Johnny's Gravatar
 Location: Hobart, TAS
 Member since 31 July 2016
 Member #: 1959
 Postcount: 141

The soldering and subsequent dry joints on a 1S2 valve socket caused by workers menstrual cycles was discovered by studying the dates of serial numbers on a whole batch of Kriesler television sets.
Someone in the office studying warranty claims must of been fairly bright.
JJ


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 13 · Written at 6:31:09 PM on 12 May 2017.
Ian Robertson's Gravatar
 Location: Belrose, NSW
 Member since 31 December 2015
 Member #: 1844
 Postcount: 478

I've heard that story before and I am assured by someone who was there that it's not true.

The true story is citrus fruit and no following hand wash.....

But like they say, never let the truth get in the way of a good story!

Still being in the business I can assure you that ANY product failures are taken very seriously. You work very hard to pin down the root cause.

We had a batch of a product here recently that wouldn't work when sent to Victoria. No problems in Qld! We discovered they would stop working below 20 degrees C. Tracked down to the use of Y5R ceramics that have a very uncontrolled temperature characteristic. Big product recall, expensive rework. It's why the industry needs older engineers like us. Experience!


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 14 · Written at 8:16:56 AM on 13 May 2017.
Johnny's Gravatar
 Location: Hobart, TAS
 Member since 31 July 2016
 Member #: 1959
 Postcount: 141

I heard this story from within the Kriesler ranks.
And the way in which the details were described was very believable.
Don't tell me I have had useless information in my brain for 45 years plus, Smile.
JJ


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 15 · Written at 1:50:57 AM on 17 May 2017.
Vintage Pete's avatar
 Location: Cromer, NSW
 Member since 1 May 2016
 Member #: 1919
 Postcount: 457

The Kriesler 11 77 and 11 78
Were all built using No ordinary ply.
Its Baltic Birch from Europe and is known for its sound quality.
Its very expensive even today.
On top of this they laid Veneer and it was usually Pacfic Malple or Walnut. They used the plain Crown cuts and then stained it ,offering Oak ,Rosewood, Blond Clolor ,
The finish they used was Nitro or oil Varnish ,Both were used on this model Kriesler.
The base color was often cellulose paint and then they tinted the clear to give it that depth.
If you are restoring one of these,you cant match that color with an over the counter bought stain .
But if you want to match that stain send me an email.
Pete

I have 2 of these and they are wonderful units . Great old sound and I feel they were the best looking unit kriesler made.


 
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