Welcome to Australia's only Vintage Radio and Television discussion forums. You are not logged in. Please log in below, apply for an account or retrieve your password.
Australian Vintage Radio Forums
  Home  ·  About Us  ·  Discussion Forums  ·  Glossary  ·  Outside Links  ·  Policies  ·  Services Directory  ·  Safety Warnings  ·  Tutorials

Tech Talk

Forum home - Go back to Tech talk

 Mystery Electric-car Tech
« Back · 1 · Next »
 Return to top of page · Post #: 1 · Written at 10:36:34 PM on 10 August 2019.
NewVista's avatar
 Location: MilwWI, US
 Member since 10 May 2013
 Member #: 1340
 Postcount: 600

Bris. electric car fast charge Co. claims they tap municipal HT power distribution lines directly without using step-down trans!
How would they do that?
www.tritium.com.au


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 2 · Written at 7:49:20 PM on 11 August 2019.
Brad's avatar
 Administrator
 Location: Greenwich, NSW
 Member since 15 November 2005
 Member #: 1
 Postcount: 5500

How would they do that?

I doubt it's legal, regardless. Their website doesn't work either.

People and companies can't just "tap in" to the transmission or distribution grids. That has to be done for them by accredited service providers. Unless they are a very large commercial or industrial consumer, they would be taking their electricity at 240/415V like most customers do.


‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾
A valve a day keeps the transistor away...

 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 3 · Written at 8:37:24 PM on 11 August 2019.
Robbbert's avatar
 Location: Sydney, NSW
 Member since 18 September 2015
 Member #: 1801
 Postcount: 1074

Their facebook page seems to have a lot of company information.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 4 · Written at 2:04:06 PM on 12 August 2019.
NewVista's avatar
 Location: MilwWI, US
 Member since 10 May 2013
 Member #: 1340
 Postcount: 600

Looks like the news article (quoted below) actually says the transformerless charger is not quite rolled out yet:

"...the outcome of the project, and where the Tritium fast chargers come in, will be in developing a unit that can connect directly to the medium voltage network – which is able to deliver power at a much, much faster rate than your average household electricity connection (somewhere between 10-30 kilovolts depending on where you are in the world, as opposed to 240 volts in Australian households).

As Kennedy explains, the chargers being deployed in Europe and the US also connect to the medium voltage network – commonly found on industrial and certain commercial sites – but at the moment, they do so using transformers.

.. for the new (chargers to be developed), their electronics will run directly (to the network), ... the direct connection also means no losses in energy, which would normally be experienced when transmitting electricity through a transformer."


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 5 · Written at 9:03:53 PM on 12 August 2019.
Brad's avatar
 Administrator
 Location: Greenwich, NSW
 Member since 15 November 2005
 Member #: 1
 Postcount: 5500

I still don't understand what they are trying to achieve and still cannot reach their site. As an electricity customer is not charged for transformer losses, eliminating transformers from the equation isn't necessary. Aside from that, eliminating transformers entirely isn't feasible or even possible at this point in time. Electricity in NSW comes out of the power station at 23kV, which is then stepped up to 132, 330 or 500kV, depending on where the power is being sent. This is then lowered again at numerous substations before it gets to electricity users. When it hits the retailers' networks it is generally at 66kV and is lowered to 33, then 11 and then down to the 240/415V that most of us get. Other states have differing network topologies and choices of voltages, given their physical size and number of customers.


‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾
A valve a day keeps the transistor away...

 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 6 · Written at 9:06:38 PM on 12 August 2019.
GTC's avatar
 GTC
 Location: Sydney, NSW
 Member since 28 January 2011
 Member #: 823
 Postcount: 5262

The posted link doesn't work for me either. This does: https://www.tritium.com.au/


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 7 · Written at 11:01:49 PM on 12 August 2019.
NewVista's avatar
 Location: MilwWI, US
 Member since 10 May 2013
 Member #: 1340
 Postcount: 600

 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 8 · Written at 5:50:09 AM on 13 August 2019.
Brad's avatar
 Administrator
 Location: Greenwich, NSW
 Member since 15 November 2005
 Member #: 1
 Postcount: 5500

I notice how articles like this always avoid the contentious issue that batteries don't like being force-fed and this includes the latest versions of the lithium-ion time bombs. It is the battery technology that needs improving and the price has to dramatically fall too, given that the current price to replace batteries in electric cars and hybrids is something like $15,000.00. If battery life is cut in half by fast charging then ownership of electric cars will not take off in big countries like Australia because most people simply don't have the money for it.


‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾
A valve a day keeps the transistor away...

 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 9 · Written at 9:57:47 AM on 13 August 2019.
NewVista's avatar
 Location: MilwWI, US
 Member since 10 May 2013
 Member #: 1340
 Postcount: 600

I don't think they can do it yet with isolating-switch-mode-power-supplies as spikes & surges are the nemesis of semiconductors. How do they isolate? With capacitors according to one chip maker: http://www.ti.com/lit/wp/slyy063/slyy063.pdf

Quote: "batteries don't like being force-fed"

Good point. French Co. says EV's can be charged quickly when they have its new nano-tech super-capacitor: http://www.nawatechnologies.com/en/technology/


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 10 · Written at 7:15:33 PM on 13 August 2019.
GTC's avatar
 GTC
 Location: Sydney, NSW
 Member since 28 January 2011
 Member #: 823
 Postcount: 5262

EV's can be charged quickly when they have its new nano-tech super-capacitor

Ah, the flux capacitor. 😀


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 11 · Written at 10:46:30 PM on 14 August 2019.
NewVista's avatar
 Location: MilwWI, US
 Member since 10 May 2013
 Member #: 1340
 Postcount: 600

An EV equipped with a Super-Capacitor can be charged in just a couple of minutes and then, after driving off, the charge can be transferred to the batteries at a leisurely pace by the car's operating system (to avoid capacitive ESR losses.)


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 12 · Written at 3:39:49 AM on 15 August 2019.
Brad's avatar
 Administrator
 Location: Greenwich, NSW
 Member since 15 November 2005
 Member #: 1
 Postcount: 5500

I think the trams in Newcastle operate a similar way as they do not have trolley wires above the tracks. When the doors open at a stop, the pantograph raises to contact a point above to obtain a brief charge before the tram heads off to the next stop. This is probably only ideal for shorter lines such as this one.


‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾
A valve a day keeps the transistor away...

 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 13 · Written at 6:25:28 PM on 15 August 2019.
Ian Robertson's Gravatar
 Location: Belrose, NSW
 Member since 31 December 2015
 Member #: 1844
 Postcount: 1291

Actually Brad, like the new ones that will be running down George St (one day!) they pick up from a 3rd rail in the pavement.

The contacts are segmented and only become live when they are under the tram. Saw this system first in Bordeaux where most of the network uses pantos but the "scenic - historic" area uses this clever 3rd rail system.

Here is a link:

https://www.alstom.com/our-solutions/infrastructure/aps-service-proven-catenary-free-tramway-operations


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 14 · Written at 10:23:00 PM on 15 August 2019.
Brad's avatar
 Administrator
 Location: Greenwich, NSW
 Member since 15 November 2005
 Member #: 1
 Postcount: 5500

The Newcastle ones aren't made by Alstom. They are the same Urbos 3 ones that run on the Inner West (and future Parramatta and Olympic Park) lines, though with the need to survive on a battery for the entire run. I took a run on them the day they started running.

The Alstom Citadis ones here have both a pantograph above and underneath, the latter to contact the third rail you mention. There are breaks in the third rail and the material that fills these gaps seems a bit flimsy. It'll be interesting to see how it all lasts but seems to hold up at the King Street intersection at the moment.

I went for a look at the testing on the Randwick line the other night and recording a video of a few passing by. Link is below. I haven't seen any on the third rail portion of the line yet but that won't be far off I hear.

https://vintage-radio.com.au/video/sydney-trams-1-140819.mp4

The location is Alison Road, outside Royal Randwick Racecourse.


‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾
A valve a day keeps the transistor away...

 
« Back · 1 · Next »
 You need to be a member to post comments on this forum.

Sign In

Username:
Password:
 Keep me logged in.
Do not tick box on a computer with public access.