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Location: Wangaratta, VIC
Member since 21 February 2009
Member #: 438
Postcount: 5617
I do tag & test and aside from radios, it is incredible as to what I see. There are those who donate /dump electrical stuff, often from deceased estates to Mens Sheds etc. A fail rate of 10% or better is not unusual and one wonders how dad died or did not raze the place to the ground?
I have not wavered from my thought that it was cloth rubber wire or rubber insulated wire, on being disturbed, ignited the roof of Notre Dame.
Location: Naremburn, NSW
Member since 15 November 2005
Member #: 1
Postcount: 7564
I have nor wavered from my thought that it was cloth rubber wire or rubber insulated wire, on being disturbed, ignited the roof of Notre Dame.
The same happened a little closer to home around 25-30 years ago. St Mary's Church in Concord, NSW lost its roof the same way. I grew up in Concord - only walking distance from the church - and the night sky was always lit up by the big blue crosses on the roof of the church but as mentioned, the problem of not getting rid of ageing VIR cabling made the ultimate impact and up went the roof. Whilst a good job was done with building a new roof with a steel frame and restoring the interior of the church, one of Sydney's biggest, the original interior detail was lost for good.
‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾ A valve a day keeps the transistor away...
Location: Wangaratta, VIC
Member since 21 February 2009
Member #: 438
Postcount: 5617
It is a fact of life that some of that old cloth rubber mains wire is still in service. A friend has a 130 year house & its full of it and two others have had to have their houses dated around the forties to early fifties, rewired. Another with a rental, I noted was wired with it and I told them to move. They did and very few years later it was razed to the ground.
Pre RCD's or, with places with Energy Safe Vic was promoting getting the lines in the house insulation tested every five years.
The fact That Notre Dame roof was being renovated added to my suspicions. However, if they were working on the roof: Why was it left alive?
Location: Naremburn, NSW
Member since 15 November 2005
Member #: 1
Postcount: 7564
There are still quite a lot of places, domestic and commercial, with VIR wiring in service, along with ancient E-frame and KA-frame switchboards. A lot of homes also still do not have RCDs because when VIR wiring gets damp it will nuisance-trip RCDs every time, so those wanting an RCD who are then told that a 6-10 thousand dollar rewire is also necessary then baulk at the cost. Back in the crazy days of the $190 "Clipsal safety switch" rollout in the early 1990s, it was commonplace, and legal, to put the GPO for the fridge on its own circuit which bypassed the RCD, also to prevent nuisance tripping and ensure food didn't spoil if the RCD did trip whilst people were away from home.
Better quality fridges, with sealed door switches and a requirement that a separate RCD would be necessary for each final subcircuit got us around those problems from the early days. Rental properties in NSW now have to have RCDs fitted to light and general power circuits.
My house, a late 1930s Californian Bungalow, which is a popular home style in Sydney, has modern wiring for the final subcircuits and RCD protection but has VIR for the consumer mains (and that ain't big, believe me) - it's classic for the times - probably 4mm2 at the most due to the house having the gas on for cooking and hot water. The only thing that gives me confidence is the knowledge that the council fuse would only be a 40A rewireable type, as the meter is also only rated at 40A. If built today, the consumer mains would be 16mm2 and rated at 100A with a 100A HRC fuse cartridge, even in homes with gas.
‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾ A valve a day keeps the transistor away...
Location: Wangaratta, VIC
Member since 21 February 2009
Member #: 438
Postcount: 5617
Off to a good start, site is becoming unworkable. Loades read what you posted logged in and it locked up & would not re-load. It seems to have some sort of clash with cashes etc.
My issue with fuses is that there are situations where they don't blow until its all to late, or not at all and have issues with starting surges in particular. With radios some want to put them in on the mains side others the secondary of transformer sets. I have seen plenty of cases where that is futile.
I did post photos of a transformer from a Thorn stereogram where the secondary melted down. This, like a couple of stick welders, which I have seen, despite in one case being pre RCD and others with RCD's, In all cases as they were transformer and the issue was on the secondary side: This meant that as long as the mains current was not exceeded the fuse/ CB did not blow / trip and in the case of the RCD the fault being on the isolating secondary, they would not see earth leakage and held.
In the case of both welders, they fused earth wiring.
Location: Belrose, NSW
Member since 31 December 2015
Member #: 1844
Postcount: 2646
A thermal fuse in contact with the transformer windings is the only sure way to protect a transformer. Particularly small transformers, such as used in radios etc.
Re the VIR wiring, even 20 amps at 240 volts is 4800 watts. That's easily enough heat to start a fire without blowing the council fuse.
I can envisage an active to neutral leakage developing into a slow burn around a rusted join inside that black painted sheet steel conduit used in the '30s. Enough to burn through and set fire to the adjacent timber.
Sorry Brad. If it were me, I'd be replacing it. It'd be a shame to lose one of those classic Californians.
Location: Wangaratta, VIC
Member since 21 February 2009
Member #: 438
Postcount: 5617
With the metal conduit. The radio club and car club here were meeting in a particular hall and we were not the only ones. It had a line of surface mounted Bakelite outlets with metal conduit. I was suspicious of it (do Tag & Test for the radios I fix) and suggested to the right person that it need to be looked at due to the a real public risk.
The next visit noted a new line and a completely new switch board. Person was also happy as she got a new power point in the kitchen.
The farm here was upgraded from aerials to underground wiring: One line alone 460m. In the 120 year old shed the RCD in there was not going to hold. Unfortunately the power points did not have double pole switching. So it took an electrician and I a bit of time, to find the neutral earth fault. One slack electrician had wired a floodlight to the Galvanised Iron without a grommet: Naturally, it cut into the neutral.
That same slack electrician, was also I believe responsible for the active leaking to ground on a power pole & not bowing the 40 Amp fuse and an active on a twin core, burning the brass earth wire joiner used to join it. Still don't know how that didn't start a grassfire.
The more amusing "electrician" doing what I told him not to do; replacing a floodlight he broke. Did manage to get bitten by putting a screw into the feeder (40 amp fuse) pre upgrade. This was the 120year old shed of log construction & wooden floor. The screw went through a metal panel into the feeder.
He won't be getting anymore work here: I don't mind him killing himself, he does not have a high reputation in the trade locally anyway(arrogant), However, I don't need the Spanish inquisition & paperwork, should he succeed in killing himself here.
Location: Sydney, NSW
Member since 28 January 2011
Member #: 823
Postcount: 6890
Sorry Brad. If it were me, I'd be replacing it. It'd be a shame to lose one of those classic Californians.
IIRC, he is renting that house.
Side note: Unfortunately, Californians are being bulldozed in areas of Sydney where they were popular back in the day to be replaced by so-called duplexes.
Location: Wangaratta, VIC
Member since 21 February 2009
Member #: 438
Postcount: 5617
One thing to remember with houses and buildings in general, is Age& Condition.
The third house here had structurally, gotten to the point where another renovation, of that Weatherboard, was neither commercially, or DIY, not viable and it has been replaced. Yet the Chaff Shed which is over a century old and log framed is still going and in use and the Shearing Shed (Wooden framed) at 73; Has taken about 3months part time to repair.
I note that a cousin, builder of many houses, on brutal, but commercially sound grounds, would make more money, bulldozing a tatty house then building a new one on the block. So judging on aesthetics alone, can be a commercially serious blunder.
Location: Naremburn, NSW
Member since 15 November 2005
Member #: 1
Postcount: 7564
The VIR here is still sound, and it often is when kept inside the split-seam pipe and the original "Clips All" fittings. VIR is let down by mice and overheating light fixtures and there is another saving grace - I micromanage the current flow. The total lighting current here is around 1 amp, with every light turned on, due to it all being LED globes now.
Generally speaking, I am also not one for leaving everything turned on all the time, not like today's kids or even some of the adults I work with and that helps too.
‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾ A valve a day keeps the transistor away...
Location: Wangaratta, VIC
Member since 21 February 2009
Member #: 438
Postcount: 5617
I would note that batteries are not charged where they can set a fire.
This computer has quite a lot of peripherals, so there has been from the days of reclosers, a master switch on a contactor box with delay timer. The box has a down rated fuse (5A) and surge protection which one needed with the recloser. It shuts off al of the peripherals. It will not, on outage restart the power, until there is 3min of uninterrupted supply. The box is shut off overnight.
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