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 AWA The Fisk Radiola Radiogram ID and schematic
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 Return to top of page · Post #: 1 · Written at 15:48:26 on 8 August 2010.
KT66's Gravatar
 Location: Perth, WA
 Member since 8 August 2010
 Member #: 716
 Postcount: 11

First of all, hello from a new member.

I recently aquired this radiogram, and I'm looking for model information and a schematic.

It's an AWA The Fisk Radiola (according to the dial), 7 band, 6 valve Radiogram.

The valve lineup is as follows:
6U7G 6J8G 6U7G 6B8G 6V6G 5Y3G


Here are the links to the photo's:


Image Link
Image Link
Image Link
Image Link
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Image Link
Image Link


Thanks,

Brad


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 2 · Written at 17:09:32 on 8 August 2010.
Marcc's avatar
 Location: Wangaratta, VIC
 Member since 21 February 2009
 Member #: 438
 Postcount: 3787

Valve line up is absolutely common. See if you can see a model number. They did not seem to make Radiola Fisk after 1939.

I would suspect Model 701,276 & 316, (same 7 band chassis.... different cabinet etc.) Circa 1937 in AORSM's

Marc


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 3 · Written at 17:20:35 on 8 August 2010.
STC830's Gravatar
 Location: NSW
 Member since 10 June 2010
 Member #: 681
 Postcount: 833

Hello Brad

The orange G ARTS&P sticker suggests a 1940 radio.
The valve lineup looks like model 316 except that has 5Y3 rectifier & 6U5 indicator. Does yours have an indicator valve under the window on the dial with Medium Wave B'casting on it?

All of the radios with 5V3 rectifier also have an extra 6B8 and 6V6. These are 7 band radiograms like yours, but motorised push button tuning.
Is there any label the gives a model no on the chassis?

Graham


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 4 · Written at 19:11:45 on 8 August 2010.
New2radio's Gravatar
 Location: Brisbane, QLD
 Member since 5 January 2009
 Member #: 410
 Postcount: 61

What a shame the original turntable was removed & replaced with a 4 speed changer, but such was the fate of so many pre 1951-52 radiograms.
I assume the line half way up the changer recess was where the original motor board was?
Shouldn't be too hard to find a late 30's or early 40's Garrard or Collaro record player to replace it with- if you prefer shellac to vinyl lol.
Otherwise, I guess you could update it with a more modern changer & wire it for mono playback.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 5 · Written at 01:20:15 on 9 August 2010.
Marcc's avatar
 Location: Wangaratta, VIC
 Member since 21 February 2009
 Member #: 438
 Postcount: 3787

The 6U5 may be an extra? I too would expect it under the BC Window. The console 316 has more volts on the secondary.

6B8 should have a can on it, it has the base for one. Where is the pick up link? Photo of card shows one?

Last patent date on card shows 29/5/36. (Not consistent with 1940)

Probably due to war, newer sets went back to using some of the older series of six pin tubes. WD scarpered of with many 6B8's causing a shortage.

Marc


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 6 · Written at 12:21:07 on 9 August 2010.
KT66's Gravatar
 Location: Perth, WA
 Member since 8 August 2010
 Member #: 716
 Postcount: 11

Hi all, thanks for the replies.

After a little further investigation thanks to Marcc's model listings,
I came across the associated literature and it's described in there as not having the Tuning Indicator fitted for the model 316:

Image Link

So that makes it a model 316, built in1941 by my account.

So now onto finding out why everything is running up ok but getting no volume at all, looks as though there's a broken off pin in the buss bar linkage at the back,
and the speaker isn't doing anything when putting a 9v battery across the pins.

Thanks again all,

Brad


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 7 · Written at 20:34:27 on 9 August 2010.
Marcc's avatar
 Location: Wangaratta, VIC
 Member since 21 February 2009
 Member #: 438
 Postcount: 3787

I do not like running these things up with old paper caps & electrolytics that have been sitting a long time in situe: Recipe for disaster.

Try flicking the battery across pins 3 & 4 of the 6V6. You may just be lucky & get sound (set not powered up).

This is an electrodynamic speaker that has no magnet. The field coil of the speaker is the filter choke and relies on the current passing through the coil to form the magnetic force. It may not be dead.

You will get no radio noise if the pickup link pin is missing.

Place finger on top of 6B8. This should produce hum if the amp is working.

Also before anything else. Place a voltmeter positive on pin 8 of the 5Y3 1000V range. Neg to chassis. If you get nothing within 10 or so seconds. Turn it off there is a short in the B+ or the 5Y3 is dead (rare). Growling transformers & smoke are also a good indication of a short. Shorted electrlytics are more apt to go bang (Mortar effect) . IC clip leads are good for monitoring HT.

The fact that the heaters & filament glow and some of the dial lights work, is never a good guide to the likely hood of the set running or being safe to turn on.

Many sets were abandoned as the broke down or were hacked about by some twitt who knew naught about radio & set about proving it.

Marc


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 8 · Written at 22:52:32 on 9 August 2010.
KT66's Gravatar
 Location: Perth, WA
 Member since 8 August 2010
 Member #: 716
 Postcount: 11

Thanks for the tips Marc,

I did give it a look over before I fired it up, I was fairly confident it was safe to do so,
nothing out of the ordinary, no magic smoke, hot transformers or noises to be heard.

It has had work done on it, to what degree I'm not sure.

I've checked the field coil, primary and secondary values and they all seem ok.

As I mentioned, the pickup link has a broken pin inside it, thus I feel I cant get a proper contact to get any indication of it being operative, I'll need get the chassis out to sort it out and while in there fix any issues,
so no more playing until it's upside down!

I've included some pictures of the underside of the dial and turntable,
I can't see any dial light or where one may have been,
there's obviously been a few modifications to the turntable with it being replaced,
but the dial looks suspect too, do you notice anything unusual?

Thanks,

Brad

Image Link
Image Link


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 9 · Written at 00:14:35 on 10 August 2010.
Marcc's avatar
 Location: Wangaratta, VIC
 Member since 21 February 2009
 Member #: 438
 Postcount: 3787

I think with dial lights you will get a better perspective with chassis out. Dial seems to be of that type. 7 Bands are rare.

That will probably include speaker so that you can bench it. I have repaired several hundred over the past few years, the majority commercial repairs.

My normal procedure with anything with paper caps and old electrolytics in it, is to be rid of them. If a resistor is out of circuit at one end check it as well, some you can rough check in circuit, but don't expect that to be accurate.

The grid resistors on 6V6 fail by the dozen and I have seen several plate resistors let go on the 6B6's. You may have to make a link for the PU socket (see white card on side).

You can check the speaker coil with an ohmeter if you disconnect the transformer. & humbuck (Thats why I suggested using primary) Do note that Digital meters do not measure ohms the same way as basic analogue ones.

I think once you expose the inards and we see them, we can get a better idea of where things may have gone awry.

Marc


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 10 · Written at 10:34:18 on 10 August 2010.
KT66's Gravatar
 Location: Perth, WA
 Member since 8 August 2010
 Member #: 716
 Postcount: 11

Thanks for your help Marc, much appreciated, will post pics as I go along.

Brad


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 11 · Written at 00:21:12 on 13 August 2010.
KT66's Gravatar
 Location: Perth, WA
 Member since 8 August 2010
 Member #: 716
 Postcount: 11

Ok, had a chance to pull the chassis tonight and take a few pics, here's the rats nest:

Image Link
Image Link
Image Link
Image Link
Image Link

I don't have a clear schematic to see if everything is as it should be,
there's some fairly average soldering going on in there too.

What do you suggest gets replaced?

Brad


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 12 · Written at 22:14:17 on 14 August 2010.
Marcc's avatar
 Location: Wangaratta, VIC
 Member since 21 February 2009
 Member #: 438
 Postcount: 3787

Y..e..s well!. Pretty poor effort on those who have patched at it. At the time the polyester Ducons went in thats when all of the papers should have been turfed.

That also applies to leaving the red filter cap in when the other electrolytic was changed. What a hotchpotch of resistors salvaged from the 1920's onwards. I really think that every carbon resistor is going to need checking. The ones with the metal caps have a tendency for the cap to come loose.

There is a resistor between the red Electro & a Blue Ducon polyester that looks cooked. On that, in 34 there is a blue electrolytic that looks a bit like its coming apart (may be shorted). Don't trust old electrolytics & make sure they are not leaking chemical.

Those Black "Mud" caps can go they're paper: One is clearly cracked. They have a habit of shorting when that happens, especially when it's on an end.

All beware! I have seen several Styroseals (Caramel colour) doing this......check all of them.

There are some caps with "AWA" wrappers on them (34): Paper...out. Along with that mud.

That should keep one amused for a while.

I fix these things so don't be surprised at the ruthless recommendations. I have seen a few like this.

I have luckily only had one set this year where nearly every resistor & cap in it, had failed. 1956 a bad year.

Marc


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 13 · Written at 14:53:59 on 15 August 2010.
KT66's Gravatar
 Location: Perth, WA
 Member since 8 August 2010
 Member #: 716
 Postcount: 11

Hi Marc,

I'd noticed a metalized resistor had come away from its solder pad, so I soldered it back in, made a buss bar for the link at the back, fired it up, and what do you know it works!

Picks up all local stations clear as a bell, no overheating or the like, so that makes it easier by not having to fault find.

I think my plan of attack will be to replace all caps and resistors, regardless of condition, much easier and quicker than chasing the whole circuit to see what's good and what's not, and for the extra $20 or so in parts, my time's worth alot more Smile

Thanks again for your help, I'll post a new topic once I've completed the overhaul and restored the cabinet.

Brad


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 14 · Written at 21:20:31 on 15 August 2010.
Marcc's avatar
 Location: Wangaratta, VIC
 Member since 21 February 2009
 Member #: 438
 Postcount: 3787

It is great that it makes radio noises; That indicates that tidying it up it is all going to be worthwhile.

The biggest expense is when transformers & valves let go.

If you had an "Insulation tester / Megger you would find it useful on HV non polarised caps. You do need to justify its expense.

Some of these instruments are available with a range of voltages. With one end of a cap out of circuit You can Zap it & see if it leaks. On papers I don't bother but occassionally you have a Mica that lets go.

It would be good for randomly checking the blue (non polarised ) Ducons. I would tend to not replace them as they are Polyester ( I think). just get rid of the Mud's and the AWA paper labeled ones.

Check the Grey wire wound resistors, I would not replace them unless they are more than 10% out. Caps and resistors should not be tested in circuit, if you cannot prove an end to be isolated.

Look forward to seeing the progress.

Marc


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 15 · Written at 09:37:06 on 16 August 2010.
KT66's Gravatar
 Location: Perth, WA
 Member since 8 August 2010
 Member #: 716
 Postcount: 11

Hi Marc,

I have a few friends that are sparkys, may be able to borrow a megger from them for a few days to check it all out then.

Thanks for the recommendations, will keep it posted here as I go along.

Brad


 
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