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 Help! Aristocrst or Salonola Radio.
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 Return to top of page · Post #: 1 · Written at 6:23:59 PM on 14 April 2010.
Flakes's avatar
 Location: Adelaide, SA
 Member since 27 February 2010
 Member #: 630
 Postcount: 392

I have come across a unique radio. I am having trouble trying to work out what it is. It has a salonola badge on the front but looks exactly like the aristocrat 1051

This is what it looks like
(Outside link)

http://www.shlrc.mq.edu.au/~robinson/museum/Aristocrat/.


My valve line up is a bit different than what he describes. My set is: 6A8G, 6U7G, 6B6G, 6F6G, 5Y3G

All valve types except the 6A8G are stamped on the chassis.

The only thing stamped on the back of the set is 30366, and it's ARTS&P label No 112616

Does anyone have a better cct for this set than the one on his website. I am having trouble working out some of the values of the parts in mine to see if it is the same.

Also the O/P txfr is stuffed. the rubber coated wire insulation has all but broken off. The field seems to be ok but wont be able to tell until I can get more time on it. I plan to use a modern(?) one on the bracket and replace all the wire with PVC. I know it wont look exactly as it should but its a small price to pay to get a good looking set working......


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Valve radios, They just don't make them like they used to

 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 2 · Written at 7:33:52 PM on 14 April 2010.
Brad's avatar
 Administrator
 Location: Greenwich, NSW
 Member since 15 November 2005
 Member #: 1
 Postcount: 6174

I have little knowledge of Salonola though there is a reference that this brand was sold through Heiron and Smith, a company that now sells billiard tables.

Aristocrat was well known for badge-engineering radios and many of their sets (maybe all) were made by other companies, Airzone being one.


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A valve a day keeps the transistor away...

 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 3 · Written at 7:55:30 PM on 14 April 2010.
Flakes's avatar
 Location: Adelaide, SA
 Member since 27 February 2010
 Member #: 630
 Postcount: 392

Hmm ok. Well that makes things harder. anyone with ideas as to what the set might be?

Check out the picture in my first post


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Valve radios, They just don't make them like they used to

 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 4 · Written at 12:32:33 AM on 15 April 2010.
Marcc's avatar
 Location: Wangaratta, VIC
 Member since 21 February 2009
 Member #: 438
 Postcount: 4178

If the output transformer is not open? I have repaired several, where the wire insulation only, has failed. Take a carefull look before daring to toss it.

Despite that fairly ordinary circuit, the valve line up is not the same unless tubes have been substituted. Most of the Aristone sets had 6V6 not 6F6 and the two valves need different bias. Also these tended to have the Octode EK32 / EK2G.

The 6B6 is also a hint as this was not a valve used by many as it tended to be unreliable.

Marc


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 5 · Written at 7:38:00 PM on 15 April 2010.
Flakes's avatar
 Location: Adelaide, SA
 Member since 27 February 2010
 Member #: 630
 Postcount: 392

Ok...

I have checked the O/P transformer and it seems ok.

What is the difference between a 5Y3G and a 5Z4G?
I have looked at the data and they see identical for the application in this radio. (I have spares of both types of valve)

Also since the 6A8G isnt stamped on the chasis there is a very big chance that someone has replaced the origional one.

The chasis is in a very bad state. someone who had less of an idea than me had a go and I have to pick out all his solder from various parts.

I still need a clear diagram to work out what he may have touched. on the plus side it dosnt look like any of the IF transformers or trimmers have been fiddled with.

Anyone with a cct for the aristocrat 1051? it seems to be what this radio is from working a rough diagram of power and audio output


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Valve radios, They just don't make them like they used to

 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 6 · Written at 10:09:32 PM on 15 April 2010.
Marcc's avatar
 Location: Wangaratta, VIC
 Member since 21 February 2009
 Member #: 438
 Postcount: 4178

At the time of writing both valve data books have escaped to the workshop. However, I think that the filament current is different 5Z4 is more.

I think 5Z4 also has a distinct cathode that is tied to pin 8. so being technically a heater valve it has a slower warm up.

I had an Astor Mickey with the Philips valve in it. Valve worked happily when put in a known working Astor JJ. Its handy as a test bed.

O/P transformer can have the Plate wires replaced. It's easest on the ISO (metal jacketed) type.

I have a circuit but it may not be much better than the other one?

Marc


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 7 · Written at 10:32:47 PM on 15 April 2010.
Flakes's avatar
 Location: Adelaide, SA
 Member since 27 February 2010
 Member #: 630
 Postcount: 392

Thanks for the info. I will try and FIX? the o/p transformer. The rubber coating is cracked off where it enters the black (Some hard plastic or rubber) base of the transformer. I just hope that soldering to the wire will allow me to attach a set of fly leads to replace the cracked and perrished leads. The field windings are covered using the cotton braid, and look in good condition.

If you could post up or send me your diagram via email I will try to put together a better one.

I am very interested in getting this thing to work because at its present state it is ready for the tip! but I want to bring it back from the dead. The wooden case is in an ok condition and needs little work. its just been played with.

Thanks again

Daniel


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Valve radios, They just don't make them like they used to

 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 8 · Written at 11:12:20 PM on 15 April 2010.
Marcc's avatar
 Location: Wangaratta, VIC
 Member since 21 February 2009
 Member #: 438
 Postcount: 4178

If that is an ISO transformer the transformer is set in pitch alternatively, some were covered in pitch.

Careful application of a heat gun, works wonders. Pitch is notorious for cracking.

The cotton covered can be of two types, one is silk cored, tho other rubber. The latter tends to shatter if bent.

I have seent the circuit to Brad. examine it carefully to ensure that you have what you think you have?

ART&P label may well line up with a manufacturer, lists of such things, have been sighted.

Often I fly blind with these things. Normally ridding the thing of old electrolytic's, bad wiring & Paper caps presents a 90% chance of it running.

Normally I check resistors as best as, as I change the caps. Any resistor or mica that is unsolder at one end, is always checked. This saves work & hassles later.

Do be careful with the circuit (sent to Brad) as the values are in Meg ie .5 is 500K

Marc

Aristone 1051M
Click on image for larger resolution


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 9 · Written at 11:18:19 PM on 15 April 2010.
Flakes's avatar
 Location: Adelaide, SA
 Member since 27 February 2010
 Member #: 630
 Postcount: 392

Thanks

Look forward to seeing it.

Brad can you please send on to me.


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Valve radios, They just don't make them like they used to

 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 10 · Written at 6:55:55 PM on 17 April 2010.
Flakes's avatar
 Location: Adelaide, SA
 Member since 27 February 2010
 Member #: 630
 Postcount: 392

Hi Marc

Can you please send me the diagram directly. I am keen to look at it and try to work things out.

Thanks




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Valve radios, They just don't make them like they used to

 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 11 · Written at 7:54:56 PM on 17 April 2010.
Brad's avatar
 Administrator
 Location: Greenwich, NSW
 Member since 15 November 2005
 Member #: 1
 Postcount: 6174

Sorry chaps, I've been working on the development of the new website and this has taken me away from day to day duties at times. Circuit diagram is now uploaded. Wink


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A valve a day keeps the transistor away...

 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 12 · Written at 8:19:48 PM on 17 April 2010.
Flakes's avatar
 Location: Adelaide, SA
 Member since 27 February 2010
 Member #: 630
 Postcount: 392

Thanks

I can work out more of the values now. especially around the Converter.

Just one thing. The parts near the vol control.

1. Any idea as to why there is 2 values (0.0001, 0.00025) for the cap across the volume pot?

2. also what is the value of the cap going to the grid in the 686G? is it 0.003 or 0.005?????

3. Also on close examination is there a 0.001 cap across the 2 diode detectors in the 686G?

This is the same place where my chasis is messed with so I was hopeing to get a clear (Better than I had) diagram.

Also I am in the middle of drawing a clear diagram for this set. I will post it back up when its done to help out others.


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Valve radios, They just don't make them like they used to

 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 13 · Written at 8:43:37 PM on 17 April 2010.
Brad's avatar
 Administrator
 Location: Greenwich, NSW
 Member since 15 November 2005
 Member #: 1
 Postcount: 6174

1. I can't guess why that is the case.
2. 6B6G - the cap value looks like .005 here.
3. It does look like a condenser here but hard to confirm as I am not familiar with this brand or chassis.

Feel free to e-mail your redrawn circuit diagram to me if you want it included in your post. You can add it yourself if you are familiar with HTML coding and have an account with Photobucket or similar image hosting service.

I'll drop a bit of news about the new website, all members will be able to upload images to their own member folder on the new site and simply add a ten digit number on a new line in their posts to include images - probably a 'first' as far as forums are concerned. This is the feature I am working on now and not really the easiest-to-code one I've thought of. It should definitely be well-received by members though. Smile


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A valve a day keeps the transistor away...

 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 14 · Written at 8:48:51 PM on 17 April 2010.
Flakes's avatar
 Location: Adelaide, SA
 Member since 27 February 2010
 Member #: 630
 Postcount: 392

Uploading pictures Sounds like a great idea. The only thing I can think of is the size limits of your storage. I take it you host this site yourself, but the amount of pictures that may come could soon blow out your storage.


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Valve radios, They just don't make them like they used to

 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 15 · Written at 9:21:03 PM on 17 April 2010.
Marcc's avatar
 Location: Wangaratta, VIC
 Member since 21 February 2009
 Member #: 438
 Postcount: 4178

Circuit sent direct

Volume sweeper 0.005, use 0047 (472) Grid leak 10 Meg.
The minature equivalent is 6AV6 and they did not build it any better.

The one across the diode plates is probably a mica of 100pF ( 0.0001mfd) (Circuit reads .0001) and will not need changing. This is a half wave detector, with seperate AVC.
If this has been monkeyed with, revert to circuit.

The wrong AVC will impinge on the entire front end. ie both the converter & IF amp.

The confusing one, is related to the IF frequency and is probably Mica, if it is no touch, or put back what is there, provided monkey has not changed it. I would expect around 100 to 250 pF. If it looks original leave it.

With sets that have been monkeyed, or there is no diagram. I often resort to the AutoCad & draw up what I have, as a guide to finding, what I should not have.

Last one had four bands, & seven valves, a bandpass filter as the first IF, and was a one off. This ones simple.

Marc


 
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