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 Proper mains earthing of vintage radios
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 Return to top of page · Post #: 16 · Written at 4:24:43 PM on 21 August 2020.
Vintage Pete's avatar
 Location: Albury, NSW
 Member since 1 May 2016
 Member #: 1919
 Postcount: 2048

Ian,
Yes you did a good job of it, I did it the same way on the 11 77 and the 11 95 chassis I did a while back...
It would not come off if it was carried by the earth strap,

GTC I will buy one, I'm not working on the shed ,due to this storm that's come in from the Antarctic.
It's very wet and cold , snow storm in mountains. So between that and the border being close nothing is happening.
I did feel sorry for the local cops when I was at the border. It was pouring rain and freezing and their stuck out on the back road too Hume dam getting wet!! Local cops are very good and friendly, not like city cops at all.
They often chat with me at the border..
It's a bit like that English show Heartbeat., nothing too big going down around here Lol.
Pete


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 17 · Written at 5:28:56 PM on 21 August 2020.
Jimb's Gravatar
 Location: Kanahooka, NSW
 Member since 18 November 2016
 Member #: 2012
 Postcount: 712

GTC.
I meant RCD's just a momentary glitch in the grey cells.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 18 · Written at 10:35:02 PM on 21 August 2020.
Marcc's avatar
 Location: Wangaratta, VIC
 Member since 21 February 2009
 Member #: 438
 Postcount: 5254

You do not necessarily need a plug in board for years I used a plug in one HPM S100 series 30mA which I still have and I plugged the radios & power boards into it. As all six fuse boxes are circa 2012 & 2016 its now obsolete here. However, I have two other plug in ones. One I use at displays at the Show Ground here as I think Noah did the wiring.

Pity you are on the wrong side of the border. If you have a Middy's they have the combo ones and are online. I actually bought two wired floodlights from them recently and they were cheaper than the Bunny Rabbit.

If its wet enough to upset the battery drill and mains one and can be in reach of a compressor (portable) I use the air one. It can drill underwater and never overheats.

Would agree with some of those Philips transformers My 132L has one & I have seen others. The windings on the advice of a motor rewinder were teased back in (as best as) toothpick and then secured with epoxy resin. Set has had several sessions running for hours & it has not let go.

Marc


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 19 · Written at 11:54:40 PM on 21 August 2020.
Vintage Pete's avatar
 Location: Albury, NSW
 Member since 1 May 2016
 Member #: 1919
 Postcount: 2048

Marc,
Who knows when the border will be open again. it's difficult because Melbourne is my closest city for making money. 3 hours and I'm there if the border is open.
Sydney on the other hand is a long hike from here. All I can do is sit it out and continue working here towards the day it opens again.
I have sheds to build and a home to set up in the mean time.which by the way is not happening this week end as we got so much rain. They are predicting a wet summer!! Last summer was dry as a bone here.
Pete


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 20 · Written at 1:10:10 AM on 22 August 2020.
Tallar Carl's avatar
 Location: Latham, ACT
 Member since 21 February 2015
 Member #: 1705
 Postcount: 2154

I actually spoke to a old tech on this subject a few weeks back ( Rudy Transfield ) . I actually asked him "why we couldnt just solder the earth wire to the chassis?. His answer was this. Steel heats up and cools down at a different rate to solder! Therefore after some time the solder joints can fail! He has seen this on a few TV sets he has repaired ( this isnt something that he just made up. Its actually the reasoning behind the new rules ) . I then asked him why do we need to use a ( with a flat washer ) star washer? His answer was because of corrosion , apparently the action of digging into the chassis helps evade this problem. I then said is there any reason why I shouldnt crimp and then solder ? His answer was there is no reason why you cant.

Sometimes with tag strips I will run some solder over the nut and bolt to the chassis. Hey it maybe overdoing it but I'm not going to be needing to look under the chassis for a few decades Smile .


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 21 · Written at 3:48:46 AM on 22 August 2020.
Brad's avatar
 Administrator
 Location: Naremburn, NSW
 Member since 15 November 2005
 Member #: 1
 Postcount: 7300

I can give you a good reason why you can't solder over a crimped connection - solder doesn't take to aluminium very well.

Solder will take to steel but you have to get the tag on the chassis very hot for it to work. I don't think the metals expanding and contracting at different rates should be an issue unless the joint is dry. We'd be talking thousandths of a millimetre.


‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾
A valve a day keeps the transistor away...

 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 22 · Written at 7:09:49 AM on 22 August 2020.
Simplex's Gravatar
 Location: Bathurst, NSW
 Member since 7 August 2008
 Member #: 336
 Postcount: 391

Thanks for all the comments/photos. Will chase up the necessary lugs and washers


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 23 · Written at 9:36:32 AM on 22 August 2020.
Johnny's avatar
 Location: Hobart, TAS
 Member since 31 July 2016
 Member #: 1959
 Postcount: 544

The earth connection also needs its own dedicated bolt and hole.
You cannot just use for example the mains transformer mounting bolts. Or any other.
JJ


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 24 · Written at 12:45:06 PM on 22 August 2020.
Marcc's avatar
 Location: Wangaratta, VIC
 Member since 21 February 2009
 Member #: 438
 Postcount: 5254

Pete,

Aware of the weather around here, did work in Albury for a while Wodonga is only 45 minutes away from me. Albeit the the Ute has made it from Lavington to here inside an hour pre NSW side freeway. Don't know why we don't just build a Rabbit proof fence around Melbourne and we get on with our lives. WA has one along its border & that seems to work.

Marc


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 25 · Written at 10:28:59 PM on 22 August 2020.
Tallar Carl's avatar
 Location: Latham, ACT
 Member since 21 February 2015
 Member #: 1705
 Postcount: 2154

I still tend to solder on the crimp because I use the good quality scope iron and never seem to have a issue with the solder taking to the tag. A good solder joint is all to do with the care you take doing the job but I firmly believe these rules are set for the less competent. Also remember there is a lot of lead free solder out there and that may be a issue as well.
We had a local electrician to our home a couple of weeks ago and I asked him where he gets his solder? His answer was to buy it from the local lighting store.
He thought I just wanted the hobby solder but I informed him that I want what he uses in his heavy duty work.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 26 · Written at 11:50:40 PM on 22 August 2020.
Vintage Pete's avatar
 Location: Albury, NSW
 Member since 1 May 2016
 Member #: 1919
 Postcount: 2048

Probably whether it's a solder Earth or Crimped earth , it's still going to be better than what was on these old things originally.
In the chassis I have done ,which can only be counted on one hand! I put a fuse in the line.
In the hope it may help if things go south.
But the chassis I have done never had a fuses and if they Have an Earth originally it was a piddly little thing attached to a tiny screw so a solder Earth or Crimped earth and a fuse has to be better than that...
Eg look at new appliances, The lead is so thin with hardly any installation, it's a thin bit of plastic! Look at the lead connection on a modern TV, it's a tac of solder on a PCB board !!! Is it safe? I don't think so, they get pulled off regularly and if you accidentally put a modern TV down on its lead, The insolation is so thin it tears a hole in the lead.....

Pete


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 27 · Written at 12:07:39 AM on 23 August 2020.
GTC's avatar
 GTC
 Location: Sydney, NSW
 Member since 28 January 2011
 Member #: 823
 Postcount: 6686

Eg look at new appliances,

Sure, but no one here is holding up today's cheaply made appliances as a standard to go by. We aim to do a lot better than those.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 28 · Written at 1:23:34 AM on 23 August 2020.
Marcc's avatar
 Location: Wangaratta, VIC
 Member since 21 February 2009
 Member #: 438
 Postcount: 5254

Interesting that laying on its cord was mentioned. HMV has had its new 3 wire cable facing the bench several times, It did not get crushed as there was a strategic block of wood in place.

Don't know about appliances, it goes further than that. Power Boards are just as bad. Not much point in putting Neon's in to show its on when they fail quickly or switches that are underrated, fail, nor can the whole thing handle the rated current. I have seen three so far melt down at, or under their rated 10A.

If I replace a cable on a transformer set (and always do it on a shielded one) it will be three wire. One of the issues with knots in cables is that with some cable it can rotate, and that can & has broken the termination. That can be lethal.

The cable should not be able to be "pulled" out however, if that risk is there, always leave the earth lead longer so that it is the last to break, as there is a better chance of it blowing the fuse. If you are worried about earth bonding with a screw use "star washers" (shake proof) and leave a wire tail from the crimp eye to solder to the steel chassis. Bolts can work loose & I have seen a couple of drill presses & a lathe where that has happened.


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 29 · Written at 7:26:11 AM on 23 August 2020.
Vintage Pete's avatar
 Location: Albury, NSW
 Member since 1 May 2016
 Member #: 1919
 Postcount: 2048

Some old things were built in a scary manner too! I have this wonderful looking 1950s Clock/lamp. It's looks like it came straight out of a 50s sci fi movie.
The body of the clock is bakelite/ plastic and is the shape of an Eye, It needs a rewire and it's 2 core. Coming from the back of the clock is a brass Metal tube that's about 8 inches high and on top of that tube is the metal light fittings and the metal shade and a switch for the lamp.
It's wired like this,,, and is wired with that white heat cloth type wiring you sometime see on old toasters from that era. etc etc . The 2 wires go into the back of the clock and then piggyback off that , 2 white wires go up the centre of the brass pole and into the metal light fittings and the metal shade.
The switch is on the back of the shade and it appears it has been loose and turning around in there for years!!!
Gosh!!!! So although the clock is a fantastic cosmetic design ,They put no thought in to safety .
I'm going to have a go at re wiring this and I saw that type of wire at Jay car recently.
The clock has been in storage for years and I bought it in London years ago. It's pink and looks a bit like the UFO from H.G Wells 1953 war of the World movie.

Pete


 
 Return to top of page · Post #: 30 · Written at 3:14:37 PM on 23 August 2020.
Tonyb's Gravatar
 Location: Lawnton, QLD
 Member since 6 March 2018
 Member #: 2223
 Postcount: 5

Hi I got a couple questions
1 Do radios have to have an earth wire now?
If so why were manufacturers tightarses and saved 2m of earth wire?
2 Where do live chassis radios stand now? Illegal?
3 Is it OK to just use an 240v isolating transformer instead?
Tony


 
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